Casting!

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by James Waggoner, Jan 7, 2012.

  1. fisshman26 Member

    Posts: 360
    Trail, B.C., Canada.
    Ratings: +18 / 0
    When your hammer is heavy it does the work for you, when your hammer is light you have to do the work!
    Great stories from the Spey Gordon.
  2. yuhina Tropical member

    Posts: 2,320
    Boston-Idaho
    Ratings: +43 / 0
    That's right! You don't even need to lift the "heavy" hammer and it will lift itself and bang it for you... great physics hypothesis! Bruce! LMAO :rofl:
  3. fisshman26 Member

    Posts: 360
    Trail, B.C., Canada.
    Ratings: +18 / 0
    well Mark there are those that are able to do real work in the real world with our own hands that dont let thoughts of physics limit there use of the practical. If you ever had to frame a house you would figure it out real quick!!!!
  4. speyghillie speyghillie

    Posts: 180
    River Spey Scotland
    Ratings: +20 / 0
    Hi Mark,
    I think you can tell we are just having a laugh, while i enjoyed your thread a while ago until it got stupid, Bruce and myself know each other very well and are only having some fun.
    Don't take everything so seriously in speycasting as there is enough bullshit, have some fun and enjoy it.
    Cheers Popeye.
    DTX Pro Staff.
  5. yuhina Tropical member

    Posts: 2,320
    Boston-Idaho
    Ratings: +43 / 0
    I know, Gordon.

    Please don't get too serious...
    Same here... just having some fun to poke you guys around...
    BTW thread never get stupid... it gets entertaining and die...

    Mark
  6. SpeySpaz still an authority on nothing

    Posts: 1,825
    Roy, WA
    Ratings: +13 / 0
    I just picked up an 8/9 Delta multitip for super cheep to use on my 15' 7/8 Greaser, waiting for the river to get back into shape so I can go play.
    No Popeye forearms required with that outfit.


    View attachment 48787
  7. James Waggoner Active Member

    Posts: 776
    wa
    Ratings: +40 / 0
    Gordon, you obviously didn't read the Powerlite marketing...It says it's light enough to cast all day!

    Just got word that it is supposed to ship today! So, who know's how long that should take, coming from the UK?

    Bruce, have a sinking or intermediate line I could try? You've said it before that's one of the areas the UK rod really shines and differs in it's ability, verses a US designed rod, to pick up deep sunk lines.

    James.
  8. speyghillie speyghillie

    Posts: 180
    River Spey Scotland
    Ratings: +20 / 0
    Hi James,
    Its all about the marketing, only kidding......... i am sure you will love the rod and hope you catch some really big fish on it, it will lift a sunk line out of the water no problem.
    I really should find out where that 13ft Norway Speycaster is, it must be at a buddies house in BC.

    I have decided to kinda dip out of all the Speycasting forums in the US and Canada, except this one...... i like you guys.
    Cheers James.
    Gordon.
  9. SpeySpaz still an authority on nothing

    Posts: 1,825
    Roy, WA
    Ratings: +13 / 0
    wish you wouldn't Gordon, it would be fun to watch certain go-karts run out of gas in Formula One land. And be pushed back to the pits.
  10. speyghillie speyghillie

    Posts: 180
    River Spey Scotland
    Ratings: +20 / 0
    Hi Speyspaz,
    Can't be bothered with the same crap over and over again on the formula one site, better here or better still ............ oot fishin.

    Here is a little bit from a couple of early documents and books but i won't bother posting else where.

    What happened in the early 1800s, among other things, was that more and more (increasingly urban) people learned to fish from less direct sources. The publishing and printing revolution of that century enabled a huge increase in the number of books on every subject, and a greater and greater specialization among the books. More and more people needed to know the basics of fly casting, for one thing. So all those loosely practiced techniques that you might (or might not) have seen on the stream for many centuries finally got written down; especially, they got named. Besides, once people starting writing more of these details down, they wanted to get credit for them. Some of these guys may even have invented some of this stuff again and not even known it had been around for centuries (see Pritchard, below).


    While Speycasting is first mentioned in books dated in the 1850’s it seems to have started out with many different names, and no real detailed descriptions in early books.
    Switch casting, Speycasting ,Underhand Casting techniques and Welsh throw are all mentioned, there does seem to be a connection between Alexander Grant moving to Wales in 1871 and the mention of the Welsh throw in early books.
    Francis Francis, angling editor to The Field] magazine is credited with the first real attempt to describe the mechanic’s of the cast in A Book on Angling dated 1867,
    But John Colquhoun (1805-1885) wrote a book called Salmon-casts and stray shots in 1858, he was very much a Trout fisher but still liked to fish a long rod and line, he wrote.
    In some of our Northern rivers, such as the Spey and the Ness, the Underhand up-stream throw is much in use, I have mentioned it in a former work, but the whole style of fishing is so ungainly and unsportsmanlike that few gentlemen would be willing to adopt it.


    Cheers Gordon.
    DTX Pro Staff.
    www.mackenzieflyfishing.com
  11. yuhina Tropical member

    Posts: 2,320
    Boston-Idaho
    Ratings: +43 / 0
    Very cool Gordon, and thanks for the very interesting stories...

    So... If I understand your logic here right,
    People has been doing this spey casting many years ago and in many different ways, and since there are nothing written in the books from the early spey history. Thus, you concluded there are nothing new in spey casting, and the historical casters MUST have been doing this and that... included all the inventions in the modern world... do you happen to see those ancient people cast? do you read the descriptions from those old books? what make you come to the conclusion there are nothing new in spey casting? or this is just your rational style? or simply your imagination? How do you know they have do it all? care to share what you know and have read about different casting styles? or care to share what is YOUR underhand casting style about?

    BTW, glad to hear you like WFF, it is indeed a wonderful fishing board. Welcome! and just let you know, Skagit casting probably is not invented from the historical era of River Spey.... give you a hint... it's from a river in North America...

    Mark
  12. SpeySpaz still an authority on nothing

    Posts: 1,825
    Roy, WA
    Ratings: +13 / 0
    Gotcha, very good, Oh, I do get it. An aside, I want to be on the list for that book eh? Signed, is that a go?
    Due to burnout, I'll be oot myself if the river drops a hair more. Have a new line to try on my Death Star, one of those newfangled scandi heads. And a Delta sinktip to try on one of my longer rods. Both should go like a rocket. I often wonder what ol' Al would do with it...probably toss it across to the far bank and grin widely.
    Here we are, 150 years later, all still trying to describe and explain a relatively simple yet precise (and individuated) series of motions to toss a string with a stick.

    God, I do love this stuff.
    Bob

    I took a couple guys out last week, mostly to see if we could help them with their casting and swinging, and a good time was had by all. I was given a very fine bottle by one friend, and life is good. Balvenie Caribbean Cask, a new thing! Life is so full of good surprises, so long as an open mind and good spirits are there to share in them.
  13. TrevorH Active Member

    Posts: 428
    Bellingham, WA, US.
    Ratings: +32 / 0
    I can't imagine what the state of casting & fishing a 2-handed rod would be were it not for the efforts of anglers that came before me.
  14. speyghillie speyghillie

    Posts: 180
    River Spey Scotland
    Ratings: +20 / 0
    Hi Speyspaz,
    Have fun fishing,
    Mark,
    Skagit casting probably is not invented from the historical era of River Spey.... give you a hint... it's from a river in North America... that did make me laugh, thanks for the hint, my what i would do without your help,........ o hang on i fished that river with Dr Way Yin.
    With your knowledge of Speycasting you must have fished and watched the Speycasters on the rivers Spey, Dee, Don, Tweed and Tay, how many times ?

    As for this little piece i posted,
    What happened in the early 1800s, among other things, was that more and more (increasingly urban) people learned to fish from less direct sources. The publishing and printing revolution of that century enabled a huge increase in the number of books on every subject, and a greater and greater specialization among the books. More and more people needed to know the basics of fly casting, for one thing. So all those loosely practiced techniques that you might (or might not) have seen on the stream for many centuries finally got written down; especially, they got named. Besides, once people starting writing more of these details down, they wanted to get credit for them. Some of these guys may even have invented some of this stuff again and not even known it had been around for centuries (see Pritchard, below).

    This was written not by me, but by a very well known North Americian Speycaster, so you will have to ask him how he came to the conclusion, his name is Art Lingren, all you have to do is google his name........but he is so wrong too.

    You just don't get it Mark,
    Do you really think that over all the time Speycasting has been practiced by hundreds of thousands of Speycasters in the UK, we just fished a long line and nobody tried different ways of flinging the string across the rivers.
    I could add some much more, but i guess you will always be right that all these new named casts have never been tried before, give me a break, geeeeeeez.
    Got to go practice my speyskagitscandiwifesknicherstoggafonnga snap roll cast, i named it so its mine.
    Cheers. still smilin..... Skagit river in North America.
    Gordon.
  15. yuhina Tropical member

    Posts: 2,320
    Boston-Idaho
    Ratings: +43 / 0
    Great Gordon,

    Thanks,
    You got it!

    BTW, how could you 100% sure Skagit casting never been used in River Spey in 19 centuries or before?

    Mark
  16. fisshman26 Member

    Posts: 360
    Trail, B.C., Canada.
    Ratings: +18 / 0
    Yes James, I have a full sink line you can try!
  17. speyghillie speyghillie

    Posts: 180
    River Spey Scotland
    Ratings: +20 / 0
    Hi Mark,
    My thats a very short statement, and not like you, can you please answer the question i asked you.

    "With your knowledge of Speycasting you must have fished and watched the Speycasters on the rivers Spey, Dee, Don, Tweed and Tay, how many times ?"

    I aint going to play ball with ya, i can't be bothered, and after your rant on another well known speycasting site perhaps you would correct the rubbish you stated about me.
    I would think it only fair if you went back and corrected your statement there, or are you already a legend in Speycasting.
  18. yuhina Tropical member

    Posts: 2,320
    Boston-Idaho
    Ratings: +43 / 0
    Hi Gordon,

    You mean the post below?

    Which part you want me to correct? please indicate?
    Thanks!

    BTW, no, I never travel to England and Scotland, neither do I ever travel to the moon, but I know the earth is not flat ... surprise?
    Mark
    -------
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by speyghillie
    "Simon is using the traditional spey cast that goes back hundreds of years in Scotland and England and Henrik is using the scandinavian style (underhand) that goes back 50-60 years that Goran Andersson invented. Both great casts that get the job done, just different approachs."

    Both great casters i recon, just wanted to clear up a couple of points, Speycasting has no roots in England, also the underhand casting style is as old as Speycasting inself and was practiced in Scotland in the 1890's along with shooting heads and multi-tip lines.
    Nothing is really that new.
    Thanks Gordon.
    DTX Pro Staff

    www.mackenzieflyfishing.com



    HI Gordon,


    Please don't discredit Mr. Göran Andersson by misinterpret his "UNDERHAND TECHNIQUE" as one of the UNDERHAND CASTING IN GENERAL.

    I respect your effort of encouraging people to learn about the spey casting history and I applauded your posts for that regards. But please don't mis-use Underhand Technique and mixed it with your Underhand Casting styles.

    Your underhand casting style could apply to any kind of spey line casting, and probably has been used for several Centries as you mentioned that in England.

    However, what Göran Andersson really invented and innovated in casting is what he called "Underhand Technique" (I know people get confused by his term and call it as underhand casting in general).

    Briefly,
    two things set Göran Andersson's underhand technique apart from your underhand casting style.

    First, Göran cut the line to a extreme short length standard, this isn't happen before his era and this type of line isn't commercial available before him. In other words, it short line approach only been recognized by the Pubic after him.

    Second, Göran's underhand technique is not just use underhand (bottom hand) to power a two handed rod. The very important idea lie on the following casting move after the initial lift which is reposition the rod to a new casting center close to caster's body. As I mentioned before, the most important message he want to carry has been lost. The new center of casting. This casting style was resulting from the first innovention - cutting the line short, follow by more responsive blanks made by his father. Those elements all came together on time to allow him to invent his very own Underhand Tecnhique. Try to cast your long line by using Göran Andersson's Casting Center idea then you will understand why your underhand casting is different thing than Göran Andersson's Underhand Technique.

    I sincerely encourage you to read more about his casting style in his own words and please stop discredit his UNDERHAND TECHNIQUE on the public before you fully understand his casting style.

    Mark
    __________________
    yuhina.blogspot.com
  19. fisshman26 Member

    Posts: 360
    Trail, B.C., Canada.
    Ratings: +18 / 0
    Wow Mark you are becoming a legend!!!!!
  20. speyghillie speyghillie

    Posts: 180
    River Spey Scotland
    Ratings: +20 / 0
    Hi Mark,
    I will give it another go, just for fun......
    You say.
    Briefly,
    two things set Göran Andersson's underhand technique apart from your underhand casting style.

    First, Göran cut the line to a extreme short length standard, this isn't happen before his era and this type of line isn't commercial available before him. In other words, it short line approach only been recognized by the Pubic after him.

    I ask ,
    Please tell me how long the silk lines in the 1900's were, ? bearing in mind the cost of silk and the distances most could cast in those days.

    Second, Göran's underhand technique is not just use underhand (bottom hand) to power a two handed rod. The very important idea lie on the following casting move after the initial lift which is reposition the rod to a new casting center close to caster's body. As I mentioned before, the most important message he want to carry has been lost. The new center of casting.

    Have you ever heard of Alexander Grant ? , or here is an easy one try Donald Rudd, probably the most prolific Speycasting author there has ever been........ but i guess he got it all wrong too.
    You still have'nt answered my question, you pose many but answer none......please try and learn the subject before you spout off all over the place, your knowledge of Speycasting is starting to show.

    I will add like i did before, i take nothing away from the great casters from around the world......... which now include the LEGEND.
    Cheers Gordon.
    DTX Pro Staff

    www.mackenzieflyfishing.com