Casting!

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by James Waggoner, Jan 7, 2012.

  1. James Waggoner Active Member

    Posts: 776
    wa
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    Klickrolf, I hear ya loud and clear. I was poking around "The Red Shed" trying to convince myself of the same thing. I'm on the tipping point.

    James.
  2. inland Active Member

    Posts: 595
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    James,

    What vintage is this powerlite? I think you said it is a 15' 10wt. Mine (13' 8-9-10 and 16' 11) are newer rods (within the last 3 or 4 years) that handle a fast tempo 'asking for more' when you push them. And they have a massive sweet spot. Underlined to overlined they perform great. However they are not forgiving.

    William
  3. James Waggoner Active Member

    Posts: 776
    wa
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    William, thanks for the reply. It was newly build and purchased. I'm going to the river for an hour for practice later, I'll keep the faster tempo in mind. I was also using a pretty aggresive 8wt. rio sink tip, I should just practice with a full floater for now, I just like to practice with what I plan to fish with. I'll stick to a full floater for practice until I get the timing down and comfortable with the rod.

    James
  4. inland Active Member

    Posts: 595
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    Aye!!! I see what you are doing. Throwing tips on longer lines is a different deal. Floater to get a feel, then work into tips. Without question the best tips line I have for my big powerlite is the cnd DT 9-10-11. Will single spey t-14 up to about 10' or so (shumakov brass LR tube and 7" dee monkey), and of course 15' tips in 3-8 sink rates up to 129 grains. 109's are even easier. Check with Lee @ snake river outfitters, he has PILES of these DT's left. However they may not be your cup-o-tea for a line. I really, really like them for fishing as a floater or tips line. Easily my favorite when casting up to 40 yards. But they are really good at fishing much shorter distances too.

    Enjoy!

    William
  5. James Waggoner Active Member

    Posts: 776
    wa
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    William, in your opinion, what are the advantages of a double taper and what casting differences can I expect?

  6. speyforsteel Degenerate Caster

    Posts: 316
    Eastern Washington
    Ratings: +3 / 0
    Those powerlites are great rods.
  7. inland Active Member

    Posts: 595
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    Ratings: +46 / 0
    James,

    The CND DT is a step tapered line. Think of it sorta as two GPS WF lines connected together, in the middle then tapering to each end. Very dynamic casting DT line (different universe from the traditional DT), shoots decently enough, once you get a handle on it you will be able to pick up a lot of line at your hands. Versatility is the biggest key for me with the line. Floater, tips (including t-14, but you do have to open up the loop a bit). Minimal stripping to recast. Plenty of oomph to turn over some big bugs on the floater. Same deal handling the 'W'. Yet not really a distance line. No running line to tangle!!!

    William
  8. James Waggoner Active Member

    Posts: 776
    wa
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    William, went to the Snake River site and they were all out of the DT lines. I did go ahead and get the 85' GPS 11/12, figured it would be a great one to practice with then when I get used to the rod, I'll have the diameter in the line to cut it back an extra 5' or so to handle tips. What's cool is, it sounds like it's already looped at 20'. These full lines are killing me! I'm running out of reels to put them on...and I hate to buy extra spools because they are about a much as a reel.

    James.
  9. Panhandle Active Member

    Posts: 4,103
    Selkirk Mountains, Idaho Panhandle
    Ratings: +23 / 0
    Wow, they had GPS's? Did they have more?
  10. inland Active Member

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    James,

    He's got 'em in stock, just not on the website.

    Adam,

    Only the big sizes left- 11/12 and 12/13. Plus I think he said the little 4/5.

    William
  11. Panhandle Active Member

    Posts: 4,103
    Selkirk Mountains, Idaho Panhandle
    Ratings: +23 / 0
  12. Klickrolf Active Member

    Posts: 567
    Klickitat, Washington
    Ratings: +140 / 0
    Forgive me for this. Was thinking about B&W rods and somehow came across this thread from the UK. Get a bottle of something strong and drink half of it before reading...and prepare to laugh!! These UK boys are just too much fun...and they don't take prisoners. It's BW vs. Hardy rods, a few years ago.

    And, I apologize James...it'll be no help but I think you'll enjoy!

    http://salmosalar.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=tackleroom&action=display&thread=14313

    These guys somehow connect me to something real...
    shotgunner likes this.
  13. SpeySpaz still an authority on nothing

    Posts: 1,827
    Roy, WA
    Ratings: +13 / 0
    that was a kickass read, thanks for sharing Klickrolf.
    Those Brits sure can tell a story with color.
  14. James Waggoner Active Member

    Posts: 776
    wa
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    So got my CND line yesterday. Awesome! Used some 125grn 14' tips on it and it worked fairly well, tomorrow I'll try some 109grn tips. The full floater at 85' was a real joy to cast. I really liked the extra grains, this line is about 200grns heavier than the 10/11 carron I was using. May have to buy a 11/12 carron in the near future once I get familiar with the rod.

    William, took your advice on picking up the tempo and it seems it's paying off. I've also notice, some bottom hand power into the backstroke is key to eliminating excess line stick. Been working predominately with river right casts...left hand singles, right hand snakes and Doubles, need to find some river left!

    More, video to come, hopefully by Sunday!

    Thanks, James.
  15. inland Active Member

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    Very Cool! Lighter tips will be a breeze.

    William
  16. shotgunner Anywhere ~ Anytime

    Posts: 481
    45th Parallel NW Michigan
    Ratings: +23 / 1
    Nice thread James. Great endevour to skills I don't possess. My kind of 'night school' classes.

    Klick; great link! Thanks for posting.
  17. Klickrolf Active Member

    Posts: 567
    Klickitat, Washington
    Ratings: +140 / 0
    James, forgive me if I'm wrong here, I'll just drift away if it doesn't help.
    Something I got from Mike Maxwell's book made me attempt to keep my elbows close to my body...like hold them in tight. It helped me alot because it forced me to move my body instead of my arms while loading and delivering. Your left side single is very good, I think because your elbows are constrained by the off side.

    I also cast with my right hand up. And, I also have better success with the left side single spey, it feels easy and works great. The right side is the free side and the elbow is too free. I think a free elbow allows us to muck up the rod's load. If you keep the elbows tight and lean back as you load and forth as you deliver, while your elbows are constrained as much as you can, it will help.
  18. James Waggoner Active Member

    Posts: 776
    wa
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    Klick, nice observation. I'm not sure I really want to keep my elbows tight, but the point is clear, I do need to keep them controlled and not allow them to get away from me. Tight would keep them controlled but I think it may put constraints on the long stroke needed for a long line. What do the experts say in regards to elbows tight with the long belly?

    By the way, had a pretty nice day out casting today. Camera didn't cooperate...I have 2min of me fiddling with the camera placing in on a rock and then nothing!

    What I did learn:
    Rotational E.T or whatever we got sucked into in the last thread is a bunch of bunk. I found out today how critical it is to, minimize the roll in the casting stroke. Short lines and short rods can be very forgiving and rolling less of an issue, but when the issue is magnified by a long head and long rod, things have to be fundamentally sound to look pretty.

    Anyway, had a pretty productive day practicing. I did violate my own adice to stick to full floaters, it's just the CND GPS cast tips so nicely, had to play around with it. Today I used a type 8 rio 109grn 15' tip and a cone head bunny, had some frustrations while trying to recover from bad casts as I failed miserably at trying to get the line reset down stream when there was any slack in the line. The type 8 tip made it even worse in that regard. But when everything was hanging tight on the dangle, it was pretty awesome.

    Thanks all,
    James.
    Klickrolf likes this.
  19. Greg Holt Active Member

    Posts: 154
    camano island, wa.
    Ratings: +54 / 0
    James,
    Good work on studying and improving your casting skills with the longer "poker" and matching lines!

    Regarding your comment about "bottom hand power into the backstroke", I recall Simon G's use of a definite "flick" (which can be efficiently powered by the bottom hand) toward the conclusion of the sweep to assist in producing the same result you seek. I don't see many casters doing it with shorter rods, however.

    Your diligence here will doubtless clarify and refine your casting strategies with other rod/line combinations. I look forward to a posting containing a "unified theory" as you envision it, ar at a minimum a description of the pearls of wisdom you've been able to unearth.

    When you eventually pick up a short stick and short head again (as circumstance will surely require), be sure to loosen the drag sufficiently so as not to cause the running line to part at the reel when the cast reaches the end of its flight...or as I sometimes do with a Hardy clicker, leave 'em loose so everyone within hearing knows you could have thrown it 20 feet further if you wanted to!

    All the best,
    Greg
  20. Klickrolf Active Member

    Posts: 567
    Klickitat, Washington
    Ratings: +140 / 0
    This is an excellent thread and I'm hoping to help keep it going. James has put it out there, he's trying to improve his long belly casting, even the masters want improvement...get the long line controlled and everything else is EASY!

    The vid's show James on river right trying to perfect his right side single. I think James is on the wrong side of the river to use that cast, even while practicing. Think it messes with the cast...

    Best thing to do, in my not so humble opinion, would be to move to river left and play with it, using a perry poke when the setup is off and going for it when the setup looks good.