Catch and Release???

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by troutpounder, May 5, 2012.

  1. Salmo_g Active Member

    Posts: 7,475
    Your City ,State
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    You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but it's an uninformed one. While fish don't benefit from being caught, society does. And fish populations overall can benefit as well, contributing to improved quality of life for a rapidly expanding society. Wild trout populations like in the Yellowstone River (CNR since 1973) are very healthy, and the excellent fishing has helped make thousands of people into enthusiastic proponents of wild trout conservation nationwide. The result is more wild trout conservation nationally, and even globally that are either direct or indirect results of that early CNR policy. I'd be hard pressed to call that a waste.

    Sg
    Dehlan G and CurtisS like this.
  2. freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Posts: 4,000
    Edgewood, WA
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    Keep singing Evan, you're a bit off tune to some of us out here, but no doubt sound great to the rest of the choir. I suppose you also only consider the opinions of climatologists who say global warming is a man-made phenomena? In any case, feel free to club the ones I let go...unless reg's required I keep.
  3. Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

    Posts: 6,444
    Duvall, wa
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    Provide us with one piece of peer reviewed evidence that your claims are valid, and I might "change my pitch" as you like to put things.

    At this point, I have only gathered that you spout this nonsense to be different.
    Derek Day likes this.
  4. Krusty Active Member

    Posts: 908
    Spokane, WA
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    I haven't kept a fish in over 30 years (and I've been fishing for well over 50 years). I just don't like eating them....but for people who enjoy the taste, there's nothing wrong with a harvest respectful of the resource. These things aren't going to die in a nursing home.
  5. freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Posts: 4,000
    Edgewood, WA
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    Whose peers...those in the choir who only like certain tunes? Like you, I can simply say poppycock to your claims and positions. Similar to the global warming debate, not all scientists are on the same side of the argument. There is lots we don't know about these creatures; such as their complete migratory routes and how pure the genetic strains are for unclipped fish we now count as "wild steelhead". Inconvenient facts are stubborn things; particularly when they do not support the desired outcome or subscribe to the church of wild steelhead teachings.
  6. Salmo_g Active Member

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    Freestoneangler,

    What do you mean? Inconvenient facts, or inconvenient and untested hypotheses? I think there is a clear divergence here between hatchery trout and hatchery steelhead. I've released hatchery trout for decades where they have been stocked in lakes for the express purpose of recreational fishing, and the trout can be caught repeatedly, and there is no native wild population for them to inter-breed with.

    The case is significantly clearer in regards to hatchery steelhead. While they are cultured for the express purpose of enhancing recreational and treaty fishing, releasing them is not quite as harmless as is the case with resident trout stocked in lakes. While the majority of escaped hatchery steelhead do not appear to spawn with wild steelhead, some do, and even those that don't produce viable young that compete for food and space with their wild counterparts, yet seldom produce returning adults. And when hatchery steelhead do spawn with wild steelhead, the resulting offspring experience lower survival than wild x wild crosses.

    The objective evidence is that hatchery steelhead spawning in the natural environment negatively affects wild populations, with the conditional exception of those cases where hatchery steelhead are essential to the recovery of wild steelhead. That doesn't mean there aren't negative effects in those cases as well; it simply means that the benefits outweigh the negative impacts in those situations. And this isn't a church, and it isn't a choir. It's clear, cogent, and convincing evidence in the presence of objective reasoning.

    The upshot is that the scientific evidence supports the notion of retaining hatchery steelhead when and where legal to do so.

    Sg
  7. KerryS Ignored Member

    Posts: 6,706
    Sedro Woolley, WA, USA.
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    freestoneangler,
    It seems to me that you just like to make sure everyone knows you are not part of the "choir". Here is something for you to sing about if you wish. No one really cares who you sing for. If you have an opinion fine but you don't have to make it sound like yours is the only tune on the radio that has a different beat.
  8. TROUTsniffer Member

    Posts: 122
    Arlington, wa
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    AMEN! 6 of one half dozen the other....if you like them eat them (in moderation of course, no need to take what you can't or won't legitamately eat) and if you don't, then release. it's still a blast to catch them, get the generic fly fisher photo, and let them go
  9. Chris Bellows The Thought Train

    Posts: 1,628
    The Salt
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    this aint the global warming debate. but since you say the science on hatchery and wild interactions is unsettled could you please post some studies that show that hatchery fish spawning in the wild benefits wild fish.

    that's the difference. one side cites science and the opposition can "simply say poppycock" and we're supposed to accept the opposition's side as equally weighted in the debate.
  10. freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Posts: 4,000
    Edgewood, WA
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    And, as I stated previously, you are free to retain hatchery fish if you choose to do so. I have in years past and do not choose to now.
  11. Kcahill Active Member

    Posts: 894
    Renton, WA
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    I like fish.
    CurtisS likes this.
  12. freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Posts: 4,000
    Edgewood, WA
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    Celebrate diversity Kerry.
  13. freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Posts: 4,000
    Edgewood, WA
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    No, you are right, it's not "the global warming debate"...it just tends to follow the same path, ending up going down the same bunny holes.
  14. CurtisS Member

    Posts: 123
    Amanda Park, WA
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    Freestone, I respect your opinion, but it would be nice if you showed a part of your reasoning. You think its better to relase hatchery fish. Why? All you've done is make unevidenced claims and insult people.
  15. Chris Johnson Member: Native Fish Society

    Posts: 1,787
    Bellingham Wa.
    Ratings: +316 / 1
    Yes, the chorus is building, go to the light Freestone... don't resist... go to the light...
    CurtisS likes this.
  16. Chris Bellows The Thought Train

    Posts: 1,628
    The Salt
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    at this point i would again like to ask you to post some science regarding the benefits to wild fish of hatchery plants. you keep saying that there is a divergence of scientific thought on the subject, but seemingly refuse to post a single study. should be easy enough with the google thingy.

  17. Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

    Posts: 6,444
    Duvall, wa
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    Though, he has on several occasions made it clear that he doesn't think of a wild fish as any more special than a hatchery fish.
  18. Stonefish Triploid and Humpy Hater

    Posts: 3,862
    Pipers Creek
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    I give hatchery salmon and steelhead the wood shampoo. I like eating salmon and summer steelhead. Winter steelhead are in my opinion not the best tasting fish unless smoked.
    I also use hatchery salmon as a thank you gift to my neighbors who watch my house while I'm away on fishing trips. The look on their face when you give them a nice fresh fish is priceless.
    For a change of pace, I've also been keeping some panfish which are great when fried up.
  19. freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Posts: 4,000
    Edgewood, WA
    Ratings: +719 / 1
    As I have stated previously, I don't keep any fish -- partly because releasing them offers another chance for the fish to be caught but mostly because I don't care to eat them.

    There has been plenty of debate on this subject and, much like other issues, it will continue to have folks on both sides of the discussion. Do you know for absolute certainty that the "wild" fish you release does not have some hatchery broodstock origins...just because it is unclipped? It would be great to turn back the clock and have never channelized rivers, logged the mountains, built the damns and implemented hatchery steelhead and salmon programs...but we cannot.

    I coined the term "church of wild steelhead" and their choir not to be insulting, but to describe the chorus line like response from a core group on the forum each time this issue, in particular, comes up when someone dare opposes the teachings.
  20. Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

    Posts: 6,444
    Duvall, wa
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    I don't think we care so much about opposition.. Sometimes that can be healthy in scientific matters. It's often how the opposition is presented. You often come off as smug and condescending, which in turn riles people up.