Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by shadowcast, Jul 20, 2013.
Yeah, but the effective range isn't all that great.
You get better accuracy with a two-handed combat stance.
What happens when the dog thinks you are offering it a bone?
It would be hallucinating. Run like hell.
The literature I've found suggests that bear spray is better than firearms when handling bears. The best study available appears to be Smith et al. 2008.
Smith, T. S., S. Herrero, T. D. DeBruyn, and J. M. Wilder. 2008. Efficacy of bear deterrent spray in Alaska. Journal of Wildlife Management 72:640–645.
A follow-up looked at incidents when only firearms were used.
Smith, T.S., Herrero, T. D., Layton, C.S. Larsen, R.T., Johnson, K.R. Efficacy of Firearms for Bear Deterrence in Alaska. Journal of Wildlife Management 76:1021-1027.
Both of these are easily available online. There appears to be no similar study on use of bearspray on mountain lions, probably because attacks are more rare and because cougars tend to stalk and attack from a nearby position. As mentioned above, if you see it, you are lucky and probably not being stalked.
In any case, I go with bear spray. Which I have fortunately never needed to use.
Going up against a bear with a handgun is close to suicide. There are a lot of guys here saying this and that is impractical. My best advice is carry both bear spray and your gun when you are going where there is potential danger. Spray has its place for sure but so does a handgun. It is up to the well trained individual to decide which to deploy and when. I have been carrying concealed for many years now and am completely used to carrying so saying that carrying a gun is impractical does not compute over to my system. I think pack in a whole lot more though than the standard guy does when going out in the wilderness for the day.
I have climbed into trees (tan oaks and pepperwoods) with Black bears in them and shot them with my .45
Never once did the bullet not pass completely through them, and never once did it take more than once. This was during licensed depredation hunts.
A .45 ACP shooting a simple full metal jacketed bullet is more than enough for any black bear.
The buddy system is a good idea in case of bear or mountain lion attack. Preferably a slow buddy; better yet a lame one. That way you only have to outrun your buddy, not the bear. When you leave the car to hike with your buddy, sneak a tire iron into your waders. If a mountain lion attacks, quickly knee-cap your buddy and run like hell. Don't forget to drop by his house and console his widow. That's what buddies are for.
Worrying about being eaten by a black bear or a cougar in MOST angling locations is about as relevant as worrying about being killed by lighting or eaten by a shark.
Dogs are another f'ing story. Honestly mace/spray and a small (3-4" will do) knife is more than enough, but I certainly don't object to anyone carrying guns. But I agree, that in a piss you pants moment with a charging/snarling dog moment...you're likely to suffer marksmanship issues. Mace/Pepper is a cone of incredible discomfort, and easy to hit a moving target.
Should a dog latch on, a small knife should be sufficient to end the conflict, though not without some injury. But if you are actually attacked by a predatory mammal, injury should be expected.
If you completely lose your cool, you could have an RPG. It won't matter.
Yeah I saw that research too--very interesting. It's spray for sure. A combat knife would be nice too, although if it came to that I'm toast anyway. Why wound it LOL?
Hit em with your pole
Good point. I found out first hand how important nerves are. 17yrs of competition served me well.
I just pee my pants
If I were a city boy, and my only exposure to the outdoors were WFF, I'd be certain that leaving the city is a death defying act. Sheesh. What a bunch of paranoia.
Guns and mace preferences aside, there is nothing you can do if you are attacked by a sharknado.
Thanks for the heads-up! I've been fishing in the area a bit and have only encountered the occasional dog, and none that seemed more bite than bark but I'm going to get some mace/pepper spray to carry just in case.
Was out last night and was able to land 5-6 fish, most were just the 6-7 inch doinkers but did find one rainbow that was around 14 inches. Perfect stuff for my new (to me) 3 wt rod.
1) I have never seen a bear or cougar on the Cedar but I did see a pile of bear scat on the trail last weekend. This was pretty close to where you saw the kitty.
2) I carry a 9mm or .45 Auto when I fish. I don't own a .44 magnum so in Montana it's a .45 Auto and Bear Spray.
Guys been watching Mutual of Omaha, Grizzly Adams reruns too much. Rarely will a ML attack, the only situation that may provoke an attack is if you run away. Most ML attacks are do to runners in ML country or kids on bikes... that's my experience. In the case you confront one, the best thing you can do is be aggressive, walk towards it and throw rocks sticks at it. And if you have to shoot one a .22cal will kill it in a heartbeat. In your situation it's surprises me that a ML would be in close proximity to large dogs, the only thing I can think of is it may have been retrieving cubs up a tree from the dogs in the area??
I've been on a few lion hunts and we harvested a couple of them. After getting a close look at the claws/teeth on these animals, they're impressive killing machines and I think in your case I'd rather take on a half domesticated dog than one of these lions.