Cedar Today...Glad To Home In One Piece

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by shadowcast, Jul 20, 2013.

  1. martyg

    martyg Active Member

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    Fly - where did you encounter this cougar? Did it have kittens with it? Did you have protection? Feel free to PM the location to me if you wouldn't mind - especially if you think that there might still be kittens around.

    I've seen web sites featuring wild cougars but no one is revealing locations to their secret spots!
     
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  2. scottr

    scottr Active Member

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    From a few years ago, kitties like fish. Good thing the Cedar is C&R.

    http://wdfw.wa.gov/news/may0703a/

     
  3. 10incher

    10incher Active Member

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    I use to wear a 10" blade bowie (before it was stolen) on a shoulder rig for fast access and to keep it out of the water. I'm currently carrying a more precious bowie that I made. But since it's tool steel I don't want to continue this practice. Water and non stainless blades don't get along. But the shoulder rig is trick. I cut the snapping lock strap off the sheath so access is instant (perhaps even with a cougar chawing on your head) yet the knife rides and rests very well behaved. I don't know if knife shoulder rigs are commercially available. I made mine.

    Incidentally, I started carrying the knife because I was seeing too many mountain lions on the Ca. streams I was fishing. At the time I had a 13YO daughter (which means 13 to 15YO boys around) and I didn't want to get a firearm. I've actually shot my whole life. But that's how I know that there is no measure of safety up to the challenge of young teenage boys ;) So I got the knife instead figuring that I would most likely (at least) survive a cat attack as long as I kept it close.
     
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  4. Lugan

    Lugan Joe Streamer

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    Google/Bing, and the long afterlife of everything on the interwebs is why I won't use my real name on an open forum. Closed (to search engines) is a different story.
     
  5. 10incher

    10incher Active Member

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    Except that we don't generally fly fish in a thunder storm or where sharks are swimming!!! These are typically cited incidents. I'm reminded of the Steve Irwin accident. A lot of people came forward with the rare odds of being hit right in the heart by a stingray. What these statistics neglect is that if only one in fifty thousand people swim with stingrays, and one in a million people are stung... The odds of getting stung IF YOU SWIM WITH STINGRAYS are one in twenty!!! Obviously no one is being stung by stingrays at Macy's!!! My point is, if you set yourself up in the right (or wrong) circumstances you are far more likely to become a statistic than anybody else. Many people fish where bears and cougars live. Awareness isn't just idle forum banter.
     
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  6. 10incher

    10incher Active Member

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    I've seen cougars three times when fishing in Ca. The first incident was a confrontation. I was hiking a creek and came upon an obvious mountain lion kill (small deer, head caved in, back torn out, stomach eaten and half covered in sticks and leaves). I though "Wow! I'd better be on the lookout for mountain lions!" Then, around the next bend, there it was! Placing ME between a mountain lion and it's recent kill. It squared up on me. I raised my arms and made noises but that only seemed to make the cat focus. So I took a chance and started stepping toward it. That made it turn and leave. Which is just what I did as soon as it was out of site.

    I have since looked into how to handle such things with the best possibility of survival. if you see a mountain lion DO NOT venture into the area where you saw it. If you have a confrontation, try to look as large as possible and make noise. It helps to pick up large sticks and rocks. Your ability to do this confuses the cat and makes it uncertain. If you are attacked, which would most likely happen unannounced WITHOUT having seen the cat, you are fucked. The cat is a big, powerful predator that has decided to eat you! It wants to do this with as little damage to itself as possible. This is the only information that gives you any chance of survival. Gouge it's eyes, claw at it's genitals, stick your hand up it's ass or anything else you can possibly do to convince it that you, as a meal, aren't worth the damage. If you have a gun or a knife, and you can keep your composure, you'll probably survive with a measured degree of disfigurement. ANY weapon you carry can help. The hardest part would be staying cool enough to use it with a cougar trying to hold you down and kick the flesh off your back with it's hind claws!!! I haven't been tested on that yet.
     
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  7. Thom Collins

    Thom Collins Active Member

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    I use to be a cop and have deployed pepper spray on a few occasions. I’ve never used or purchased “bear spray” but I’m guessing they’re fairly similar. A few things that might be worth considering:

    Pepper spray comes in several delivery options such as stream, fog and foam. Each one deploys much differently. Even the same delivery type by different manufactures can be dramatically different.

    Be prepared for overspray. Everyone responds differently. Some folks just taste it; others become blinded with even the slightest dusting of the stuff.
    I wouldn’t buy a can of bear spray. I’d buy two, one to practice with. Hitting a moving target with an aerosol is not as easy as you might think, even one coming straight at you. Lateral movement really complicates things as the stuff feels slow coming out of the can when you’re making adjustments. Not sure trying to figure out how the thing projects its contents when things get brown and lumpy is the best time to find out.

    Just some thoughts.
     
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  8. David Dalan

    David Dalan 69°19'15.35" N 18°44'22.74" E

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    OK, I'll give you the shark thing. But a TON of people fish, hike, golf, walk in or within striking distance of lighting. There are more BB in WA anyway than a lot of people realize. I will also point out that I firmly agree with Mr. Twain, "there are three kinds of lies; lie, damn lies and statistics." But, all that aside, BB hardly kill anyone, ever. But on the bright side, they are many times more likely to eat (kill, consume) you that a Grizzly, who will likely kill you and leave you to rot.

    :D
     
  9. David Loy

    David Loy Senior Moment

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    Sequel: Sharknado collides with Bearricane.
     
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  10. Jeremy Floyd

    Jeremy Floyd fly fishing my way through life

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    Bearricane.... Ditka?
     
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  11. shadowcast

    shadowcast Member

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    Exactly.

    It never ceases to amaze me how many hikers/sportsmen/etc. cite their personal successes in avoiding altercations with wildlife as testaments to how unlikely they are for everyone else. And, statistically they'd be right. Problem is, those numbers are often plagued with conditional assumptions and ignore other factors --which are too difficult to test for--that could drastically affect their results. Hiking next to Old Faithful is not the same as being in Yellowstone's most concentrated Grizzly habitat, nor is surfing Australia's coast the same as 'hanging ten' in its "Ring of Death." It's funny how often base jumping is regarded as the ultimate death defier, even when veterans have survived thousands of jumps. Yet, idiot tourists will blithely dismiss any possibility of a bear attack because the numbers point to its unlikelihood. I wonder....how many of those people have actually had thousands of face to face encounters (to be consistent with Bjumping) and not been charged, mauled, or killed? However, there's something to be said for being overly paranoid. Doesn't even compare to the human dangers...

    BTW--I'm not referring to anyone here, but rather the indestructible idiots on other outdoor forums, who after one successful encounter with dangerous wildlife think they're Steve Irwin.

    I saw several large paw prints on the bank but I didn't have my phone to take a snapshot. Now curiosity is killing me so I have to go back! LOL. If I see them again, I'll post.
     
  12. scottr

    scottr Active Member

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    MY Bro in law said he has had run ins with those same dogs in that area.

    I saw bear scat a little downstream from where you were last weekend. Stay alert and check your six every now and then.
     
  13. shadowcast

    shadowcast Member

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    Wow...I never would have guessed it being so close to the MV golf course. Hopefully it was smaller and contained berries, leaves, and bits of fur rather than bells and smell of pepper LOL. Not that a black is any more comforting...
     
  14. scottr

    scottr Active Member

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    This was closer to Cedar Grove. It had a rusty hypo needle, part of a flip-flip, and a Snickers wrapper in it.
     
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  15. 10incher

    10incher Active Member

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    Bear experts seem to agree that the reason black bears are responsible for more human altercations is 1) There's a whole lot more of them where people are. And 2) People, knowing that black bears are less hostile than brown bears, seem to think it's a good idea to try feeding them to lure them close enough for exiting pictures. Or that shoo-ing them from a garbage can or campsite doesn't present a danger.

    It's still a 200 to 400lb keystone mammal making a decision in these events. If you stumble on a black bear, the bear knows what happened and 99% of the time doesn't hold it against you, choosing to bolt from the confrontation. Doing it's part in keeping our two species separated. We should extend them the same courtesy. If you do the likelihood of a black bear attacking you, even if you are in bear territory, are really tiny. A mother with cubs being the exception. And even then, if you are both surprised and you immediately try to give the bears some space you're almost certain to avoid a problem.

    If you are the sort that thinks walking toward a bear (with a camera pressed to your face while shaking a box of Triscuts at it) is a good idea, you might be at greater risk ;)
     
  16. shadowcast

    shadowcast Member

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    Lmao. Yeah anyone dumb enough to try that probably deserves to be taken out of the gene pool.
     
  17. chromefinder

    chromefinder Member

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  18. bjgough

    bjgough Active Member

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    My brother's co-worker was on the Cedar on Thursday and ALSO saw a ML. Out of the corner of his eye, he saw some movement atop a boulder along the bank. He looked over and the ML just sat staring at him. He said that he just remember to try and make himself look big so he raised his arms over his head, made a lot of noise, and slowly backed out of the river (on the opposite bank) and headed for home. He phoned it in to Fish & Game and they said that several others had reported it that day as well. Same place: Cedar Grove area.
     
  19. bennysbuddy

    bennysbuddy the sultan of swing

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    I always carry a baseball bat and a few dried peas.When you encounter trouble drop a few dried peas , when the critter bends down to take a pea ,bash its head in with the baseball bat
     
  20. 10incher

    10incher Active Member

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    That cougar in cedar grove has found hunting there. It's likely an established lion expanding it's territory for food or it's a young male forced to take fringe territory because tougher males already occupy the less populated areas. Either way, it's getting use to seeing people and that's not good. It's only a matter of time before it figures that we aren't dangerous and tries to see if we taste good. It needs to go.

    I once saw a young mountain lion chasing a house cat. I ripped out a shrill whistle and the lion stopped and looked at me. The cat escaped. But the cougar literally stared for a moment, then sat back on it's haunches and started cleaning itself. Not fifty feet away. It wasn't interested in attacking me but it wasn't particularly afraid either.

    It's very rare for a mountain lion that isn't familiar with people to attack someone. Sometimes, if everything is just wrong, it happens. Like a person interrupting a kill or surprising a cat when it doesn't have a good way out. But cougars are generally afraid of humans until they spend a lot of time around us. Then, because they see we're so much clumsier than they are and we don't try to harm them, they lose the fear. That's a ticking time bomb.
     
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