Centerpin rod/reel fly fishing.

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by fredaevans, Nov 8, 2009.

  1. longstick Member

    Posts: 280
    North West
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Salmo_g
    I normally aggree with you 95% of the time and this time I agree with most of what you have wrote, but to say the word higher form.... strikes me wrong. I love fly fishing it is the one thing in my life that I could not live with out. (Don't let my wife Know) I do agree fly fishing in a traditional form, both spey and single hand take more practice and skill to learn how to cast. But to say that once you are skilled at the art, it is higher than a gear guy or guy using a float/indicator. Traditional----You walk to a run, start at the top, cast, swing, take a step, cast, swing, take a step and so on. Guys with floats/indicators walks up to a section of river and thinks to himself were could a fish be holding and then grid the water and breaks down a river, changing his leader depth and weight. Seems like more skill then a guy swinging for a home run. A guide working out of a boat backtrolling hand painted plugs with a secret scent, watching his fish finder... working his speed, watching for contures, water tempature. Really who's higher form. All I am saying is that they all take skill and the best of the best in each style are amazing to watch as a flyfisherman or not. If you were to look in my closet you would see 50+ rods and 85 percent are single and double handers, but I will be the first to say that there are time I need to fish with gear rods and pin setups...way because I love to catch fish and I can't wait as long as some guys for my next tug. If the swing is on I am going to swing if I see guys nailing fish with a nymph set up guess what, I am nymphing. If I want to battle a 50+ pound king from the kenai, I am back bouncing eggs. I am not attacking anyone so sorry if I offended anyone.
    Jake
  2. James Mello Inventor of the "closed eye conjecture"

    Posts: 2,784
    Tacoma
    Ratings: +87 / 0
    Center pinning is pretty much an art form just across the border. And in recent years it's be come increasingly popular up here. So far, most of the guys doing the pinning have been pretty darn cordial and respectful to me, but I guess your mileage may vary.
  3. BDD Active Member

    Posts: 2,218
    Ellensburg, WA
    Ratings: +197 / 2
    Sg,

    I admit, I didn't read this entire thread and missed the part about your gillnet example. I re-read my post and there were a couple things that read different than what I meant to say. I completely agree with your post with one exception, which I'll get to later. I still maintain that many fly fishers look down upon gear fishers. I come across them all the time in fly shops, on the river, fly fishing clubs, and even the internet. :) Whether they think that because they chose to use a more sporting method or not is up for debate.

    However, my point is there is a newer generation of fly anglers that place more emphasis on catching numbers of steelhead rather than the flyfishing experience itself. Many if not most of these anglers use traditional trout nymphing techniques and apply them to steelhead (e.g., indicators, split shot, jigs, eggs etc.). Regarding that technique, I say it is no better, or more sporting, or no more refined than gear fishing. In fact, it may be even a little worse because it is a bastardized way of fly fishing in its purist form.

    However, it is not the technique or practice that I frown upon as I do it myself regularly. It is the attitude of the angler who turns up his/her nose at the gear angler because they are not "fly fishing" that I don't appreciate. It is the attitude that "I'm better than that guy with the centerpin because I chuck my indicator, split shot, two nymph rig with a fly rod, reel and floating line while the gear angler is throwing an indicator, split shot, jig, with a center pin rod and reel" that bothers me.

    I completely understand your analogy of the different hunting techniques and completely agree that a swung fly, either on a floating line or on a sinktip is a more "artsy", classical, and pure way of fly fishing than any other technique.

    Finally I disagree on your gillnet method. I think a seine is an even better way of catching fish, as it allows the bycatch to be released alive. Just ask the Colville Tribe. :thumb:
  4. Anil Active Member

    Posts: 1,054
    Tacoma, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +205 / 6
    I’m not interested in arguing the aesthetics of the various forms of angling in this context. If anyone is interested in arguing what art is of ‘a higher form’, they should read Plato’s Symposium and make appropriate posts on my thread at www.washingtonphilosphy.com

    None of the posts poking fun at centerpin fishing were terribly offensive and I don’t think they were meant to be. However, I did find it hypocritical that members posted responses to this thread, while claiming to want to avoid this subject entirely. 95% off the threads on this forum are either uninteresting or I find that I have nothing relevant to add. Rather than posting on these, I merely skim past them. Some of these threads deal with aspects of fly fishing or politics that I have no interest in. I don’t take the time to post about how I have no interest in the subject. Why would they care?

    As others have pointed out this forum routinely deals with subjects that are much farther from the subject of fly fishing than this one. If we are to be as fundamentalist in our thinking as some of you seem to desire, we should say goodbye to our friends from out of state (sorry washingtonflyfishing.com) Eliminate any posts dealing with conservation (strictly speaking not specific to fly fishing) etc…
    I am of course not serious, which is why I have a hard time thinking that you guys are.

    Centerpin fishing is not fly fishing. It is a technique that appeals to some of the best fly fishermen I know. (Conversely I know some great fly fishermen that have no interest). This thread began as a genuine request for information on a subject that many fly fishermen in Washington are interested in. Poke fun if you must.

    Anil
  5. Nick Clayton Active Member

    Posts: 2,834
    Ratings: +1,101 / 4
    I have no input on the topic of center pin, just wanted to state that one thing that I really enjoy about this forum is the number of extremely intelligent posters. This thread alone has had some very well written posts, and they are a pleasure to read regardless of my personal belief on this topic.

    Nick
  6. Salmo_g Active Member

    Posts: 7,445
    Your City ,State
    Ratings: +1,566 / 0
    Flywaterguides,

    I think I understand. My premise is subjective, not objective. You won't find me saying that drift fishing or back bouncing is unskilled. I know better. My premise is that the higher angling art form results from the self imposed constraints that are inherently less effective. Nobody in the world has to agree with that, yet I'd like to have a really long talk with the odd person who feels shooting the scoped high power rifle is equivalent to longbow as a hunting art form. Same with the swung fly on a floating line contrasted with drifting bait on a casting rod. I do know and appreciate the differences, and that's how I formed my biases. BTW, I drag herring for salmon. It's not like I'm a purist or anything.

    BDD,

    There's no accounting for the mental imprecision that places jig and bobber fishing with a fly rod on some higher level than jig and bobber fishing with a spinning or centerpin rod. "But at least I'm fly fishing!" Uh, yeah, well, whatver. No argument from me that it's pretty sketchy "ism" that values fishing, so long as it's performed with a fly rod, so highly. And go ahead and disagree with my gillnet suggestion. I counter that gillnetting ain't about "saving" or releasing any fish alive. It's about the numbers, man! Just the numbers. Let the greenies worry about saving the fish. Ah, but I digress.

    Anil,

    I didn't poke fun because I must; I did it because humor seemed like a good way to break the tension in a "what is really fly fishing" type thread. And aesthetics, like art, is in the eye of the beholder. And there is no accounting for taste, especially bad taste, of which there is no short supply.

    I have no quarrel with centerpinning. It looks interesting. I could add that I'm the semi-proud owner of a couple old Winonas, among the first centerpins in the US I think. I've never tried to cast them; I just found and picked them up this summer.

    It's indeed subjective about what is appropriate forum content, but it probably wouldn't surprise you to know that I didn't join this site to read about centerpinning. And I doubt many others did either. Nonetheless, funny or not, I think the thread has elicited some interesting and useful discussion.

    Sg
  7. fredaevans Active Member

    Posts: 3,115
    White City, Oregon, USA.
    Ratings: +118 / 0
    Dang it! Missed Golfman's tag line; makes a heck of a lot of sense to me. Actually we've at the low ebb of river fishing here on the upper Rogue so any 'trip' would (for all practical purposes) be for casting practice. Somehow I'm just not up for dropping $20 for gas at this point. But soon! Very, very soon!

    fae
  8. speyfisher Active Member

    Posts: 1,053
    State of Jefferson U.S.A.
    Ratings: +133 / 3
    Centerpin rod/reel (fly) fishing?

    Someone made a comment about becoming a better fly fisher if we learned to pass on the "conservation water" and concentrate more on the good fly water. iagree Yes! I like that. :thumb: Give Fred his CP rig and let him go. Keeps him off the good fly water. More better for me. :) Another one I liked "Just because it offends you, doesn't make it right" Ooooh, that's goood. I'll have to remember that if I ever get the opportunity to talk to Barney (I am not a crook) Frank. :rofl:
  9. Brazda Fly Fishing guide "The Bogy House" Lodge

    Posts: 428
    Ellensburg, Washington
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    iagree
    Awesome, now I don't feel compelled to write anything :thumb:
  10. fredaevans Active Member

    Posts: 3,115
    White City, Oregon, USA.
    Ratings: +118 / 0
    Centerpin rod/reel (fly) fishing?

    Jimmie! Jimmie! Jimmie!!! Whip me/beat me .. but I still can't cast that darned thing (haven't had the opportunity to try the great suggestion above). Actually, only a few places I want to try this 'set-up,' most on the Rogue below Grants Pass. Some water is 'impossible' to fish with a fly rod ... but a center pin? Perhaps? Bummer is, per the last Oregon ODF report of fish over 'Gold Ray Damn's' fish counter for December is a total (GRAND TOTAL, I might add) of three .. count them .. THREE fish. Going to be quite awhile before we 'cast for success.' Bummer, DOUBLE bummer, but the upper Rogue is a Feb-April fishery unless you want to go waaaaay down stream below Grants Pass.

    Will be a bit before I try that as the cost of the Petrol would feed me/Doggies for a full week. FRACK!!
    :>(
    FE
  11. Charlie S Confrimed Reprobate

    Posts: 275
    Ukiah, CA but moving to Spokane
    Ratings: +1 / 0
    For Pete's sake, it's fishing, not an "Art Form"
  12. John Dougher Member

    Posts: 357
    SW WA
    Ratings: +5 / 0
    I agree.
  13. fredaevans Active Member

    Posts: 3,115
    White City, Oregon, USA.
    Ratings: +118 / 0
    Well ... agree to disagree? Just kidding. This has turned out to be a (minor) 'life experience' learning how to 'use' this 'bit 'o kit.' Spey casting? Read a book (well, I did have a great teacher in my early youth) and I was off and running (not well,, but off and fishing) in less than 30 minutes (yes, for you newbies, it IS that easy as all the 'single hander' 'rules still apply). This bugger is going to take some time and effort and practice!! (YIKES.) to get the basics down.

    fae
  14. longstick Member

    Posts: 280
    North West
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Fred,
    If you need help I can get you casting in less then 30 min. It will take afew hours to a day to learn and cast most of the cast but I can get you started and show you the casts so you can practice. If you are ever near Puget Sound Fly shop I can meet you their and we can cast in the alley. Anil and I will be holding a CP class after the first of the year.
    Good luck
    Jake Zirkle
  15. fredaevans Active Member

    Posts: 3,115
    White City, Oregon, USA.
    Ratings: +118 / 0
    Dear God, that's a great offer! Just wish I wasn't a 'State and a half' away (or if you will, about a 13 hour round trip drive). I'd take you up in that a 'New York Minute!'

    That aside, can you recommend a DVD that covers the subject aimed at 'Luddites?'
    :>(

    fae
  16. longstick Member

    Posts: 280
    North West
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    We did a video for Salmon Trout and Steelhead/ GlLoomis called Center Pin Secrets. We have some guide buddies in Oregon on the Rogue that can get you started. Let me know if you head that way. I am not to good with the cities in Oregon, so I don't know how close you are to Medford.
  17. RA40 New Member

    Posts: 9
    Mission, BC
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    It's pretty eay to do, the trick is to allow the reel to start spooling before the cast is made. Best cast is a underhand swing, don't try to cast as you would a bait caster or spinning rod, rather swing the rod from left to right or right to left with a underhand motion. Be sure to stop the reel from spinning long before the float hits the water, usually as soon as the weight/float reaches the highest point and begins to fall to the water.

    The big advantage to centerpins vs baitcasters is the ability to drift bait or whatever your tossing in super slow water and still get a natural drift. Here in BC, Centerpinning as you call it, is not even remotely associated with fly fishing, more a cousin of bait fishing.

    Good luck
    www.guidebc.com
  18. Starman77 Active Member

    Posts: 176
    Kent, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +69 / 0

    My brother-in-law has your DVD, so I borrowed it and just viewed it. Pretty good explanation and demonstrations of how to do centerpinning. I can see how it can be very effective at getting some very long drag-free drifts, much longer than one could possibly obtain using fly fishing gear. You guys certainly demonstrated how effective this technique can be on those Kenai river rainbows. However, the casting technique looked quite difficult, definitely more difficult than spincasting or baitcasting. What I don't understand is why a spincaster or baitcaster can't just release the bail or spool to free line the float and do the same thing without having to invest in a centerpin rod & reel? What am I missing?

    Rex
  19. Charles Craumer chuckngear

    Posts: 211
    lander, wyoming
    Ratings: +0 / 0
  20. fredaevans Active Member

    Posts: 3,115
    White City, Oregon, USA.
    Ratings: +118 / 0
    Ashland is located about 15 miles down stream (towards Kalifornia) from Medford; closest bit of the Rogue (Tou Velle Park) is about another 5-7 miles 'up-stream' from the north end of Medford. One way or the other, about a 30-35 minute drive, most of it on the Freeway. Love to have one of the folks contact me (or give me their contact info) and 'Plan the Plan!'
    Fred