CHIRONOMID THREAD -

Discussion in 'Stillwater' started by Drifter, Jan 11, 2012.

  1. Nick Clayton

    Nick Clayton Active Member

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    I've decided that I'd like to give furled leaders a try for my chironomid fishing so I started looking around at various leader sources online.

    When it comes to material, and length, what do you furled leader chironomiders prefer? From what I have read it seems that a length in the 7-8 foot range is best for stillwaters with longer tippets... What do you think?

    What about material? Nylon? Mono? Silk? Thread? Why?

    Anyone have a reliable source online for furled leaders?
     
  2. Blue

    Blue Active Member

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    I make my own. I use a special Mono that is very supple. But you could use any of the material you mentioned. Nice thing about thread is it will absorb water if not treated which adds to the sink rate, but can create a little more difficulty in casting. Another choice is fluorocarbon. I make them as well but it is hard to find 2lb fluoro in bulk which is what I prefer.
    Seven foot is a good length for me on deep nymphing. I can add anothe 14' and be at a great all around depth for my waters and still be able to do a some what roll cast with it. But I also make Tenkara leaders in 10' to 12' lengths. They were a little tougher to cast on a 8' to 9' rod though.
    I try to keep the leader diameter small so that the indicator can slide easier.
     
  3. Irafly

    Irafly Active Member

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    I rig my double fly rig by tying my top fly with a loop knot (I'll be looking into doing more with a swivel) and then tying another loop knot with new Tippett into the Sam top fly of about 30 inches for my bottom fly and then one mor loop knot for my bottom fly. I've found that my hook up ratio for my top fly has seriously increased by doing this.

    Pond, I am anchored as well and I prefer heavy flies because they sink faster into the zone I want to fish, and they will pull the leader and Tippett down vertical versus a slight bow with slack, increasing the reaction time to the indicator the a quicker hook set.

    I've fished Sheridan and some of those fish are monsters. I did well with green and red blood worms, white bunny leeches in shallow but next time I'm fishing more scuds, that lake is loaded with them.

    Ira
     
  4. pond monkey

    pond monkey Guest

    Hi Ira,
    When fishing my home waters (Central Oregon) I am usually not in water over fifteen feet deep and often only 6 -8.... so I almost always use a chemically tapered leader with extended tippet.... one fly, no extra weight.. and a tear drop indicator that is 1/2 " at the wide spot... sometime a 3/"8 corky. I BC we always are fishing in that 18'-22' or maybe a bit more range. When in the deep water situations I would rather not use too big of a bobber or too much weight still...It just detracts from the overall experience. I am a little fart at only 5'6" and that doesn't help.
    I have weighed barrel swivels and flies....fyi.... you can take an Umpqua flyline scale which also has a "gram scale" on it.... and weigh ten of you flies in a little hook box ....deduct the weight of the box and divide by ten.... standard b.h. flies come in about .2 gram/ ea. ( I believe) .... then you can weigh a #10 barrel ( about .2 gram) also i believe..... It's been a few years .... then weigh a #7 barrel.... they are about .4 gram I believe.... you get the idea though.
    I have done trials and have found that using 20 feet of straight 3X fluro leader a #10 barrel and a standard bead head fly that it takes a bit over one minute to fully sink and go straight.... that is fast enough for me...( I'm in a slow groove anyway). If i double my weight and it now takes only 40 seconds to go straight I don't feel like I have gained much and now I would have to work a little harder turning all that over each cast...I BC we fish ten hours or more per day... always standing and casting quite a bit over the course..
    Ira I believe that you challenged my conclusions regarding the use of two flies....I think it was you.... that is totally cool of course and I respect you for it...Let me just say that there very few absolutes in our sport, I admit..... maybe it is more accurate to say what I have not found using two flies to be a net advantage....I almost always have some one fishing with me in my 16 foot boat casting side by side...... often using the identical setups even flies. One guy who I have fished with quite a bit, who is an intense, skilled angler is a true two fly guy even in BC . I have not seen him do better than me generally... almost never and I usually out fish him for whatever reason.....At Diamond where we fish shallow (6'-8') a lot he still uses two and sometimes does a little better than me there but he also foul hooks fish some too......and fiddle farts around with his setup a lot more....
    Glad to hear that you anchor up Ira......Do you fish out of a boat?....... it's all about line and leader management (both), finding fish and getting "dialed in"..... anchoring simplifies all of that greatly and provides a baseline.......plus I have been i situations many time when we stayed in the same spot for hours....those days are the best....

    Paul
     
  5. Blue

    Blue Active Member

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    You don't need an anchor to stay in one spot though. I quit using them because of one or two fish that have spooled me and I have had to chace them. Plus the one or two that have swam underneath me and found that anchor rope, Yes I am talking stillwater.
    So you swivel is taking the place of a small split shot. I haven't ever tried a swivel because I am fishing straight down and suspended off the bottom.
    I have never snagged a fish deep nymphing and using multi flies. Not sure I have missed more than I would have using one, but that does happen as well.
    Different styles is all. I have started experimenting with the wash line style. Gonna take a few outtings to get that one down, but new styles are suppose to nbe fun and challenging.
     
  6. pond monkey

    pond monkey Guest

    Hi Blue,
    I am trying to figure out your m.o. You say that you fish straight down....I guess that means you are fishing vertically off an indicator...right? or are you mostly using a sinking line and fishing vertically? Are you always fishing deeper water?
    And you say that you don't need n anchor to stay in one spot... what no wind in Idaho? ....... you must mean stay in one general area, no?.....
    And yes the main reason to use a barrel is for weight ....and a convenient tippet connection...and fyi ...one #10 barrel weighs about the same a standard bead head chronnie....so it's like having on two flies .... for weight...I do use a #7 sometimes when its more windy...
    Paul
     
  7. Blue

    Blue Active Member

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    Paul, yes I fish vertically and yes with a long leader, indicator, and floating line or I will use a Type VII and vertically fish with that if the bottom changes a lot. I will use the floating set up in 5' to 30' of water, as I said, I stand on shore a lot (specially if it is windy).
    Out on the water, if I am in my pontoon, I put my back against the wind and either kick or turn my minn kota on just enough to hold position.
    I do however, use the anchor on my 14' aluminum boat, but prefer wind soxs. A little movement can be a good thing. Glass smooth mornings, I find I have to twitch my line to spark interest.
    Sounds crazy, but I have caught my biggest fish with 2' to 3' waves bouncing that indicator.
     
  8. troutpocket

    troutpocket Active Member

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    I put the indicator rod away when I lose sight of the bobber between waves (12-18"). I do like a good chop, though . . . and waiting for the bobber to "stick" in the wave.
     
  9. pond monkey

    pond monkey Guest


    Okay.... now i understand...

    Paul
     
  10. Irafly

    Irafly Active Member

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    Paul, yes I fish out of 10' pram that I love dearly. As for two flies, well I think it goes back to confidence. I fish with more confidence with two flies and I've out fished enough one fliers that I don't plan on changing anytime soon. I know that fish even in a thick hatch move up or down a few feet, I've seen it and having two flies puts a fly more probably in the zone. With that though I do hook more fish with my bottom fly. When a true hatch starts though I'll start to notice at some point more fish hitting my upper fly. That's when I know the bus are moving up and I can start moving my bugs up as well. I've also noticed that at times when the top fly is being bit more that if I switch flies around I'll even catch more. I'll often also put two completely different patterns on to really see if they are keying in on something. Now for a real cluster in some lakes here, I can fish two rods and I'll fish both with two flies at different depths. As I said before, I am willing to go there to catch fish.

    Now for the swivel, I've used a simple balance scale to weigh flies against each other and standard beads flail in comparison to tungsten. I think now though I'll use both tungsten and a swivel, maybe even some extra lead wrap as well ;)

    Ira
     
  11. pond monkey

    pond monkey Guest

    Hi Ira,
    Good to read your comments... of course it makes sense to fish at two levels at a time in deeper water, if you want to do so...My home waters in Central Oregon I don't have to fish deep and in BC two fly rigs are illegal. I am not sure why ....... they may consider it unsportsmanlike or maybe they are concerned about foul hooking fish (if flies tied are not spread apart enough.) It is legal up there however (if you are alone) to use with two rods... That can be problematic though, just last year alone while we were up there ten days, I personally know of three rods lost and I nearly lost one just setting it down for one second.... but it was one of those days when fishing was red hot......btw all three of those rods were later found...
    On cloudy, calm spring mornings.... in BC , we sometimes see fish rising even out in twenty feet of water....more often than not they are picking off scuds out in open water.... as you can spot the little crustaceans out and about during those low light times..... that is a good time to fish a scud down only 7-8 feet...or go naked...

    Paul
     
  12. Blue

    Blue Active Member

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    Irafly, good point that I didn't mention (I don't think) I do fish two different flies/patterns.
     
  13. skyrise

    skyrise Active Member

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    troutpocket, agree fishing with chop/waves has worked well for me also. if you safely do it. use a full floater wind at my back, slop cast down wind and let the motion of the water do the work. have found that with wind/waves are a good turn on for the fish. and if has been warm for many days, wind comes with clouds & barometer drops this will spur the fish to move shallow and pick off food that is dislodged by wind/waves. love it most in spring cause you can put on big dragons and go a little deeper to pick the big boys. for me the hardest days are the 80 degree no wind spring days. clear sky and the fish can see everything from a mile away.
     
  14. YAKIMA

    YAKIMA AKA: Gregory Mine

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    There is nothing more productive than when you have wind that gives you the Chironomid chop. Anchor into the wind, then as best you can, cast at a 90 degree angle to the wind. Let the fly wind drift, and sink to it's intended depth out the back of the boat and hang there for a while.

    Some years I'll get most fish in the drift, while others on the slow retrieve back to the boat.
     
  15. YAKIMA

    YAKIMA AKA: Gregory Mine

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    Pond Monkey.... your picture... Sheridan?
     
  16. Irafly

    Irafly Active Member

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    Yakima, I'll find that wind drifting works great because it potentially moves your fly where fish are working, so you can cover more water. I've wind drifted and picked up fish in the same general area, moved the boat for a down wind presentation to the general location where I'm picking up fish and tried wind drifting again with no success until the bug works directly into the area straight down wind. I don't believe that fish are looking for a chironomid to be moving with the wind, besides, I doubt that at deeper depths the wind is creating any kind of current for the bugs to be moving in. The bugs do move up and down a bit in the water column though so location is key. I believe I end up with the same effect by casting with the wind and then slowly retrieving. There are plenty of times where I'll make long casts and then not get a take until the bug is right under the boat. I'll then stupidly make another long cast only to get a take at the boat again. It usually takes me a couple of fish to figure it out. I do use the wind drift but I approach it in a systematic way to essentially allow myself to fish an entire half circle around my boat to try to figure out if there is a specific location they are holding in. Then I'll just focus on that area most likely with a down wind cast so I can keep it in the zone versus sweeping through with a wind drift. This of course is not 100% of the time I will admit that on the odd occassion the fish just want it sweeping.

    Ira..
     
  17. pond monkey

    pond monkey Guest

    No it is not....I posted that pic just so some on this board could see a typical spring BC scenario.....pretty minimalistic, but nearly everyone in hard boats anchored and standing.....
    Paul
     
  18. YAKIMA

    YAKIMA AKA: Gregory Mine

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    It gave me a good flashback. Fished Sheridan, Tunkwah, and a lot of other hidden lakes for just under 30 years, give or take a few years off now and then. With sadness, I had to leave the N.W. to find good work, but the countless memories and lessons (and the spankings) Sheridan taught me will never leave.

    Never found that free drifting a chirnomid worked for me. Seemed I was chasing the fish, not knowing which way the turned, or just too far in front of them. Instead I chose staying put in a known path and letting them come to me. Eagles nest, the rock pile, back side of the big island, Bear and Moose island to name a few.
     
  19. Olive bugger

    Olive bugger Active Member

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    Nice flies, sir. Thanks for sharing.
     
  20. WABOWMAN

    WABOWMAN Active Member

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    Thank You!
     

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