confused

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by Leroy Laviolet, Jul 3, 2011.

  1. Leroy Laviolet Aint no nookie like chinookie

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    What's a shooting head exactly ?:confused: Scandi ??
  2. Panhandle Active Member

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    Selkirk Mountains, Idaho Panhandle
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    Its a short supple head, like a compact skagit. Imagine getting a double taper line 2-3 line weights heavier and cutting off the front 30 ft of it, then attaching running line.
  3. _WW_ Fishes with Wolves

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    Skagit River
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    Shooting head for what?
  4. Leroy Laviolet Aint no nookie like chinookie

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    Scott Mckenzie's dtx company and guideline I believe both sell "shooting heads" I'm not sure what exactly they are- So what's the diff between them and scandi lines or skagit lines, or are they the same?
    When I was a kid, way back in the day, we fished sinking "shooting heads" for steelhead. They were heavy, sinking heads that we atached to mono. They cated far, but they were klunky beyond all get out, much more it seems to me than scandi. I'm curious if todays shooting heads are the same as back but in a floating head, or if scandi and skag are shooting heads of the day-
  5. fisshman26 Member

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    Trail, B.C., Canada.
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    Its all relative, I beleive the DTX shooting heads are of the scandi type. But really a shooting head is just that, a head with a seperate running line. The comp stuff has heads in the 70-100ft range with light running line attached behind it.......a shooting head.
  6. Leroy Laviolet Aint no nookie like chinookie

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    So, if a guy cuts his delta off, and adds a loop so he can use a different running line, is it then a shoooting head?
    If I'm understanding correctly, this is correct, and a "Shooting head" is any line configured in this manner. I think... A skagit is a shooting head as is a scandi etc ?-
  7. Panhandle Active Member

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    You got it.
  8. fisshman26 Member

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  9. Nooksack Mac Active Member

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    I have the impression that "shooting head" refers to a short head, with a separate, attached running line, intended to be cast with overhead casting technique. It's been that way for nearly a half century, since a few Californian tournament casters introduced them and smoked the competition. No American was thinking about double handed rods then, but the definition fits both single- and double-handed rods equally. A scandi or skagit head with separate running line, intended to be cast with water-anchored, spey casts, shouldn't be called a shooting head.
  10. fisshman26 Member

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    And why would that be??????
    They are heads that shoot
  11. Nooksack Mac Active Member

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    Like a lot of linguistic distinctions, it's arbitrary, but it's useful, in that it separates one kind of distinctive use (of the objects in question) from others.
  12. miyawaki Active Member

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    Kent, Washington, USA.
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    Mac is correct. Before we dreamed up the terms Scandi and Skagit, there were shooting heads. If they fit into this category, they can be called shooting heads as a general overall term.

    Leland.
  13. fisshman26 Member

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    Leland, dont you meen that Mac is incorrect? As a general term scandis, skagits, long heads short heads are all shooting heads.
  14. miyawaki Active Member

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    He's actually correct for the first part but somewhat incorrect on the last. You can call scandis and skagits shooting heads, but loosely. As an aside, it was Jimmy Green who is credited with inventing the shooting head. To solve the need to make long casts, with lines with interchangeable sink rates, to steelhead and salmon in the "Rivers of the Lost Coast."

    Leland.
  15. fisshman26 Member

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    I am pretty sure they were evolved from tournament casting but would say Jimmy Green evolved the first shooting heads for the double hander.
  16. Leroy Laviolet Aint no nookie like chinookie

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    Not to brag or noth'n, but I invented shooting heads.... Yea, that's it , that's the ticket !:rofl:

    Like many things in this sport, looks like the term has evolved a bit in the last 20 years- Thanks for the clarity fellas-:thumb:
  17. Wadecalvin Member

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    Here I thought you were confused but it turns out I was confused, and you all just brought that to my attention.
  18. James Waggoner Active Member

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    The real key of note, in defining the modern day use of the term "Shooting Head", is how the industry defines the term and even more importantly the designers interpretation of said definition. Like flex, weight and speed of action these definitions are as subjective to designer, as they are to us the consumer. Therefore it's important to note the designer's definition of what a "Shooting Head" should be. For instance, Guideline builds most of their two handed rods, described as "Shooting Head Rods", designed for shooting tapers or heads. They don't leave us to guess what a "Shooting Head" is as they have designed their rods to match their shooting heads...The PowerTaper or DDC Lines.

    Why is this important to note? The faster action rod is well suited for the short compact stroke of a shorter head. The same rod with a long head, in the hands of most, would tend to unload while in a long backstroke, creating slack. The forward stroke would unload with lots of authority too quickly causing tailing loops and other power robbing line distortions.

    In reality the Shooting head distintion has several sub-distincitons...Skagit, Scandinavian, Traditional, Competition and their various hybrids...
  19. Salmo_g Active Member

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    Leroy is no longer confused. A shooting head is a fly line of any length and weight, that when extended beyond the rod tip, can be "shot" with an overhead, roll, or change of direction roll cast. Leland is correct that Jimmy developed this, first for single hand tournament casting, and later to use, initially for overhead casting with a two handed rod. Jimmy was pitching sinking shooting heads across the Skagit on Sauk Bar overhead casting with 16' prototype rods in the early 1980s. The notion of "Spey" casting these heads, followed immediately with combo floating/sinking heads transitioned within the first year of experimentation that led to early forms of "Skagit" casting. Skagit and Scandi lines are shooting heads.

    Sg
  20. fisshman26 Member

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    Jon Tarantino and Phil Miravelles contributions on the shooting head would need to be reckognized as well. I believe Jon T was the first to use it in competition.