Dec Hogan signature series Fly Logic Spey

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by TomB, Nov 3, 2006.

  1. Philster New Member

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    Just to clear things up a little, it's been a couple of years, not ten. His relationship with Ed was "butch and sundance" Not "yoda and luke". If he was a "product" of fishing with Ed wouldn't fish the same lines and flies as Ed and have a similar casting stroke? If by 55 feet you mean longbelly, then yes, he used longbelly lines, but I don't know many who would consider 55 longbelly. Ed used the 1308 dec rod extensively and probably still does when no one is looking. His input is very much responsible for the "thumb notch" at the top of the grip. He also uses Burkheimers, CND, and I'd be surprised if a Meiser or two hasn't made it into his quiver.

    The loomis rods are fun and great fishing tools no doubt about it, but damn pricey!
  2. DRBfish New Member

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    I wouldn't say Ed is the grandfather of skagit. I think Mike Kenney and some of the older guys have been doing it a long time.
  3. Salmo_g Active Member

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    Sorry Tom. I didn't mean to get personal. You mentioned your interest in a particular weight Spey rod, but you didn't say what your intended use is. 14' 9wts have become pretty much defined as the standard steelhead Spey rod. I have two 10 wts and the ubiquitous Sage 9140, a 9 wt. Sure, they do the job as steelhead tackle, but to make a comparison, they are kinda' like using a 7 or 8 wt graphite fly rod to catch 6" trout. So if you're intending to fish chinook and chum salmon, then a 9 wt will be a good fit. But after a couple steelhead that weigh less than 15 pounds, a 9 wt Spey feels very over-gunned. Hence my off color comment and why I provided some context with respect to single hand fly rod weights that have demonstrated their utility as excellent steelhead tools.

    And since we're off topic about Dec's personal life, it's been more than two years and less than 10, but who's counting? And I don't know how many Spey rods Ed has, but now that he's assisting with Spey rod design for Loomis, he's been seen sporting Loomis.
  4. TomB Active Member

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    salmo g- i didnt actually take your comment personally...i knew what you were saying so no need for apologies. My response was mostly directed at the others who seemed to linger on a particular part of your post. I thought their side conversation was distracting and getting old. I appreciate all the solid advice you have offered. I was going to get the 14' 9 wt without consideration of another rod weight, but I am now reconsidering thanks to your help.

    I think it is interesting that you arbitrarily selected 15 pds as a cutoff in your above post for 8 vs 9 wts. A friend of mine who is way more experienced than me also used 15pds to distinguish the size of fish properly suited for a 9 vs 8 (that isnt to say you cant land a big fish on an 8).

    -T
  5. Salmo_g Active Member

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    Tom,

    The 15# isn't terribly arbitrary. Fish that big and larger no longer feel like tiddlers on a 9 or 10 wt Spey. But since we catch so few that are in that weight classification, and since a lighter Spey rod is also perfectly capable of playing and landing the largest steelhead we'll ever hook, there are good reasons to consider an 8 wt rod.

    Consider the questions:
    Will an 8 wt cover the water you intend to fish?
    Will it cast the types of lines and flies you intend to fish?
    Will it handle both the average and the largest fish you can expect to catch?
    Will it be a comfortable rod to cast and fish from can't see in the morning to can't see at night?
    If the answer to all is yes, what makes another rod a better choice?

    Sincerely,

    Salmo g.
  6. Will Atlas Guest

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    tom....I love you...
  7. Rob Zelk I swing, therefore i am.

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    I think i'm sort of snaking this post, sorry TomB

    DRBfish - Mike Kinney, not Kenney. I don't know all the ins and outs of skagit casting. But i do know a few things.

    Ed is the one Dana Sturn calls upon to define skagit casting, go to speypages.com and look up skagit casting. Read all about it.

    Airflo is using Ed's skagit formula to produce their skagit heads.

    Ed is the one that goes to the PNW spey claves and who demonstrates skagit style.

    I personally think he is worthy of the "grandfather" coin. He took what he and many of his close friends had done and when that much further, making it that much different; this eventually turned into what some say deserves to be labeled as a new "style", requiring a very indepth look into the important little differences that make it so (see again, Ed Wards definition of skagit style on speypages). As far as i know Ed is the only one who has described skagit style with that kind of depth and understanding. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

    Him and Marlow B among others were part of a team that was composed to design the first skagit rods ever made, but why is he the only one really mentioned when you try to find info from loomis on the SKAGIT rods?

    From what I've read, Ed, Scott Odonnell, Mike McKune and Dec Hogan used to fish together around the Puget Sound. They all fished similar ways, maybe 55 foot lines and traditional type flies, which is not skagit style. THEN they went their separate ways. While most of Mr. Hogan's new book focuses on more traditional type fishing he only spends a little section of it covering skagit style, and guess who it features? Ed.

    Maybe one rainy day Ed decided to crop the 55 foot lines down to almost half that and use the heaviest sink tips with substantial weight on his flies to suit his thirst for more steelhead and techniques that the different, newer type lines called for. Or maybe he had more influences that inspired him to do so. I'm not sure why Scott O went to Oregon, I don't know why Dec Hogan went to Utah, but if i were to call anyone the grandfather of skagit it would be Ed.

    Sure Mike Kinney has been around the PNW, and maybe he has used shorter belly(say 55ft) lines for longer, but 55ft lines aren't skagit lines. I don't know when, or if he fishes skagit lines every time he goes out like Ed. Mike does have a few years on Ed. Though if we're talking skagit casting, it is a VERY recent development in the spey world, which would allow for the deliberation of who had done it the most since its creation. Though i know Mike is a true PNW spey guru, and perhaps skagit guru (i know Kinney is involved in the making of the new CTS skagit affinity blanks which Meiser uses); i would call Ed the grandfather of skagit gurus, the one who took it, defined it, brought it into its own and really made it clear for the world to understand.

    Tite lines,

    Rob Z.
  8. Matt Burke Active Member

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    When you get all those guys together on water, none of them will lay claim to being the originator of the Skagit cast. Instead, they like to talk about and teach the cast, talk about flies, talk about fishing, etc. But if you ask them where it may have started, they invariably mention having seen Goran Anderson cast. Using the underhand is a major part of the success in the final throw out on to the water.
  9. Rob Zelk I swing, therefore i am.

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    I occasionally see some of them on the river, they really seem like some of the most humble guys I've ever met. Bumpus, Kinney, and Ward etc. Yeah i think Simon G is the Grandfather of Skagit ;) :) ;) J/k Ok, the term grandfather is definately not right for any one person. I think I did a good job of digging this post and myself into a hole. I'm trying to search for some clarity in the process of skagit casting's evolution. Please, more info if you have it... Maybe we can get to the bottom of the skagit mystery.
  10. fredaevans Active Member

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    iagree EXACTLY. If I had a 'buck' for every time I've made a similar comment I'd be very (financially) comfortable.:beathead: This clap-trap abut getting 15' 10/11's so you can handle that 'fish of a life time' is pure twaddle. As an example, here on the Rogue, as soon as the the water flows drop below 1700-1800 csf it's darned unusual to see many (local) folks using even a 8wt spey. By 1200 it's 6 and 7's. One of the better 'one handers' (up til yesterday when they kicked up the water flows by almost 25%!!:eek: ) infrequently goes to even a 5wt rod. (A nice summer run on a 4wt IS a hoot!!)
  11. Matt Burke Active Member

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    Rob, sending you a PM.
  12. KerryS Ignored Member

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    You guys left a few names out; Harry Lemire, Bob Strobel, Jimmy Green, Kim Weymouth, Eric (forgot his last name), Brad "I don't need no stinking taper" Adrian (likely one of the first to use a line configuration like the new Rio Skagit lines), Bob Huddleston, Brian Simonseth, just to name a few who were playing around with lines at the same time as Ed, Marlow, Mike and the rest. The so called Skagit line system and cast (because you can't have one without the other) was made up by all of the folks mentioned in this thread and more.
  13. HauntedByWaters Active Member

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    WOW! All you guys sure sound like local insiders! Or maybe you just read Dec Hogan's new book cover to cover ;)

    Anyway, I have lived around Bellingham my entire 25 year life and fished with some serious anglers but no name comes up more than Dec Hogan. Maybe because of his books. I don't know. The guy is a legend or so it seems to me.

    Also, who the HELL is this Dec Hogan anyway.......I mean move to Utah or Arizona or whatever.......That kinda threw me for a loop when I found out. There are all kinds of great reasons I can think of to move to other parts of the world and BELIEVE me I have covered them all in my head but one thing always keeps me here and keeps me happy: Steelhead.

    So my question, what kind of guy becomes a steelhead legend, write numerous books, is understood to be one of the best, than moves to the desert.........WTF IS THAT?!?

    Hey Dec!!!! We need some answers because I am confused :confused:

    I wish he still lived here because I would like to have a cage match ultimate fight between Dennis Dickson and Dec Hogan......Now that would be a fight!!!! DD would have the short but fast 5wt and Dec a monster Spey rod......who knows which way it would go?!?! (I have too much free time today.....which is unusual....)
  14. Will Atlas Guest

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    I believe his motives were of the feminine type. Not that I know the guy...but its what I heard through the grapevine. Anyway, I think he's crazy too...salt lake? The mormons outnumber the fish 10 to 1.
  15. KerryS Ignored Member

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    He fell in love.
  16. Philster New Member

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    Loomis and Airflo... Think about it awhile and you will be able to figure out the connection... Starts with a "R" ends with an "F". Rhymes with "Maybeff"

    As to demonstrators, O'donnel and McKune probably do more "skagit" demos than Ed. They are very professional in their presentations and their casting stroke is more accessible to most folks. Why doesn't Kinney do more? Because Mike is Mike... He will never sugarcoat a moose turd and call it a chocolate truffle. This sometimes leads to him not getting along with some of the powers that be. Doesn't change the fact that he knows more about skagit casting, and casting in general than most. I enjoy watching Mike teach very much.

    Dude, you make some bold statements, but the content of them indicates that while you are pretty well educated and passionate about this stuff, your lack of indepth knowledge makes you sound a little silly to those of us who have been swinging two handed rods for over a decade. Not knowing jack about Mike Kinney means your education is just begining. I bought a 42 foot line designed by Mike Kinney in 1997. He's been doing it awhile... Slow down, take it in. It's a journey and we all have a long way to go.
  17. Will Atlas Guest

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    Here's what I dont get....why does anyone care who is considered the grand daddy of skagit spey. this is like arguing apples against oranges. The fact is that all the guys aforementioned are great fishermen/casters and were all significant contributors to what we now know as Skagit Spey casting (which I'm sure is still evolving). Dont know if people just want to seem like they know more than everyone else. I'm not trying to knock anybody, but the fact is we all like skagit casting and we all respect the guys who contributed to its evolution.
  18. cnaka New member

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    I think Kush on Speypages put it best when he labeled Ed's style "Edgit" casting. His casting is smooth as butter but can't say I've ever seen anyone else who uses his continuous casting stroke. I probably don't undersand it (continuous load as employed by the Edgit style), but to my eyes, everyone else associated with PNW styles distinctly pauses to form the D loop. Fish with Mike Kinney if you have the opportunity. He's been around awhile and can put alot of this stuff into a wider context. You'll learn a thing or two about steelheading as well. I always do.
  19. Matt Burke Active Member

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    That pretty much sums it up, very cool Phil. I talked with Mike today about this subject. He pretty much said it kind of came about when him, Harry Lemire and Bob Strobel were trying to just kick out some short heads on to the water when there wasn't much room, which is typical during the winter and heavier flows. Then of course there was a need to get down with bigger flies, etc, merely finding a way to fish with your back against the brush and work the water close to the bank. Mike said Dec even mentioned him, Harry Lemire and Bob Strobel in his book as probably starting the now world famous cast (Maybe not in those words, I haven't read Dec's book yet). From there it led to 10 to 20 people, most of which have been mentioned now who worked the method every since, adding their skills. Edgit casting, Kinney kasting and on it goes. I think the point is, it was the collaboration of a lot of people and they are all right and all are the grandfather, if that is important to know. Actually, I think Kerry is my Grandfather or father, but my mom doesn't want to talk about it. Just kiddin' Kerry. Every person has different way of teaching it. Either way, they all work.

    One more quick note for certain individuals who lack understanding. Fly fishing is a very small world. The world of the two handed rod is even smaller. Those that show a lack of respect will certainly live out their hopeless lives on a barren plateau with no water, devoid of knowledge and very good friends.
  20. KerryS Ignored Member

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    Oh no you don't! You are not going to pin any kind of maternity suit on my ass. When they made you I was plying the waters of the Rogue River trying to figure out how cast my yellow Eagle Claw fiber glass rod with a nice new Mitchell 300 spinning reel and one of those clear plastic torpedo floats tied on the end with a bug tied underneath it.