Delta 6/7 turnover issues

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by James Waggoner, May 6, 2011.

  1. James Waggoner

    James Waggoner Active Member

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    I'm not really sure a 7/8 Delta with 85 grain tips would get me any closer to what I've achieved with the 6/7 and 125 grains tips. I'd expect the wimpy 85 grain tip to perform as well as the 77 grain tips of the 6/7 delta. By adding the heavier tip to the 6/7 I've essentially increased the head weight to that of a 7/8 but doing so where it's needed for a larger fly. I've also increased the length by a couple of feet. So the loading is the same as a 7/8 in this configuration, casts and loads nicely. Smooth accelleration and Line speed into the back cast is key to keeping the head stable at the hinge point. Snake roll has been tricky, but doubles and singles go off without a hitch. I suspect the snake rolls will come along as I put some more time into this new line and configuration. I will consider a trim off the front of the belly if needed. Thanks, Brian your advice is welcomed and valued.

    James.
     
  2. ralfish

    ralfish Active Member

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    Some great advice here.

    One other ''trick'' if you don't want to cut it back to the .054'' point ( this is a key point) is to do more of a ''half out and go'' type cast. Generally it means you have to be a bit more bang on with your timing ...

    Deltas have been my go to winter line since I went down to shorter rods a few years ago. Tips to 120 grains T 14 and 2/0 irons although my go to tips usually are T8 from 80 to 125 ish grains and irons up to 2/0.

    Currently playing around with AFS heads cut at the same .054''. Tips of T14-140 grains and 2/0 irons ok (easier than the Delta) with my usual T8 tips rocking it. The shorter head of the AFS gets through wind a bit easier than the delta but of course nothing (so far) matches the durability of those airflow lines....
     
  3. sandspanker

    sandspanker Member

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    I don't want change topic or something but what are the advantages to the delta?? I'm new to spey and everyone tells me skagit this for that and what not but it sounds like you guys are uplining the delta and still being able to toss some junk?? Is this true? What about the airfol steelhead tactical?? I've read that they can toss some junk not t17 but some junk needless to say. I am lovin this whole spey thing!!!! I have a lifetime to learn. :) great job on those fish James...
     
  4. Panhandle

    Panhandle Active Member

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    Sand, the Delta is a much longer, slender head than the skagits. The advantages are that you don't have to strip in line all day and they aren't as vulgar to cast. The disadvantage is that you have to know how to use a two handed rod (proper anchor placement, D loop formation, and forward casting fundamentals).
     
  5. James Waggoner

    James Waggoner Active Member

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    Josh, stick with the skagit...learn the fundamentals, though some will say bad habits...get some steelhead under your belt. When you get board start experimenting. At this point it's all about keeping it simple and sticking fish. Since you started with the skagit stick with it, if you started with the delta, I'd say stick with it. As far as throwing junk...Throwing junk in my book is 3" long MOAL. The other day, I saw a dashboard with carnival prizes with these funky angular hooks...now that's junk! And that junk was riding a heavy skagit for sure.
     
  6. TallFlyGuy

    TallFlyGuy Adipossessed!

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    You talking about my Dashboard fly collection? :) Was fun casting your delta the other day.
     
  7. Red Shed

    Red Shed "junkyard spey"

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    The above is some very good advice.
     
  8. James Waggoner

    James Waggoner Active Member

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    You know it. Yeah, since the catching wasn't happening, we should have strung up your TnT with the Delta for fun. Lets get out again sometime.
     
  9. golfman65

    golfman65 Guest

    where did you chop your delta? (at the rear taper) I want to get that damn running line off as well...
     
  10. James Waggoner

    James Waggoner Active Member

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    2' reel side of the taper. Welded a loop...it was that easy.
     
  11. Steelie Mike

    Steelie Mike Active Member

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    You mean my TnT James :)? That cutback Delta is perfect for that rod BTW. Lots of good advice here. Sand, stick with it.
     
  12. golfman65

    golfman65 Guest

    Did you measure it and if so do you remember the diameter? with two feet do you have that in over hang..
     
  13. James Waggoner

    James Waggoner Active Member

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    I did measure it, but don't trust the measurement from the box or website, at 50.5 feet I was still inside of the rear taper. I measured then worked my way down to the end of the taper...which was about an additional 15 to 18" then allow 2' for overhang, with the loop to loop outside of the tip top.
     
  14. James Waggoner

    James Waggoner Active Member

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    Well that's a one sweet rod Mike. Isn't that the same model of rod Brian has? I remember about 4 winters ago, meeting Brian on the river, he was kind enough to give me some pointers and advice...and to cast his TnT with a light Scandi type line on it. From that point forward, I've been looking for that feel and crispness...and my love for skagits started to wane.

    Perhaps one day I'll cast that combo again, I just hope it's as magical as I remember it...By the way, that 540 compact was blasphemous!
     
  15. golfman65

    golfman65 Guest

    Cool...Thank you
     
  16. Nooksack Mac

    Nooksack Mac Active Member

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    I've been testing a new Airflo Delta 6/7 on several rods. Yesterday, inspired by opinions in this thread, I tried something new to me: casting with sinking tips on a virgin floating line. The first was a 12' Rio clear sinking tip that weighs 37.5 grains. To my surprise, it turned over well; the additional weight was unnoticeable. A 12' Rio Powerflex (112 grains, 7 inches/second) would turn over too, if I pulled the belly about seven feet into the guides before casting. I can't report on its handling of weighty flies. With the Nooksack closed, I was casting nothing but a yarn tuft, in case of official inquiry.

    One thing that probably helped is that the line is .045" at the tip. This and other Airflo spey floaters have a thicker tip than other brands. I've found that trimmed tips above .050-something" can move some fairly serious weight.
     
  17. James Waggoner

    James Waggoner Active Member

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    Let me amend my feelings about "Where to cut..." Today, in a light wind, I found that the head just failed to load consistantly at all. I pulled the head in to where the rear tapper starts and it loaded nicely...not as tight as a loop but better load. My new response is to cut the head, at the transition...just take 90% or all of the rear taper off. (You'll add this length back with overhang) The trimmed off rear taper should sharpen the loop and enhance the load and turnover. Anyway, the good news is if you already cut it, its always easier to make shorter.

    I hope this helps...and shame on all those that saw this disaster waiting to happen and allowed me to post bad advice to the Golfman!

    I did get some 8wt rio tips to try...I'll report back on my findings.
     
  18. James Waggoner

    James Waggoner Active Member

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    So after cutting off the rear taper and re-looping, took the line to the river for a test drive: 3" conehead leach with a 109grn. rio 15' type 8 tip. Felt very good, nice tight loops at times...still working out the kinks...and Double speys very nicely. Snake roll really suffering, think has much to do with being type 8 tip, seems to double snake roll okay. Left hand single spey...tip just too deep to perform with a type 8 tip and conehead leach, did manage to get a few spiral singles to go. Will need to practice more left hand casting with a type 3 tip. 109grn tips seem to match up pretty well with the 6/7 Delta Total weight with the Rio 109grn tip is now 525 @ 50'. Though this set up will cast a nice winter sized MOAL, I will admit the factory 77grn tips and a #4 muddler minnow has greater line speed and stability....making this a good all around winter and summer line just by changing tips.
     
  19. TallFlyGuy

    TallFlyGuy Adipossessed!

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    James, why are you putting bigger heavier (7/8) tips on your lighter 6/7 delta? Isn't that blasphamous? :) Just bump up your delta to a 7/8 and your problem is solved all the way around.
     
  20. James Waggoner

    James Waggoner Active Member

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    that would require more money, I don't have. Besides, the 7\8delta tips are still really anemic at 87grn so if I add 109grn tips to that I'd be closer to 580grns...that maybe a little heavy, but I may have to go there.