Demystifying Skagit and Scandi Heads

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by Steelie Mike, Jun 3, 2009.

  1. inland Active Member

    Posts: 599
    .
    Ratings: +49 / 0
    k2,

    My comment was nothing more then a smart assed quip over using a sustained anchor with skagit heads. That style alone has probably been the biggest factor in driving skagit to what it has become today. Failure to mention skagit and sustained anchor in the same breath usually results in Ed shotgunning a series of skagit posts. Those who dig the style or consider themselves 'students of the sport' get a free doctorate lecture everytime.

    William
  2. Mark Speer It's all good.....

    Posts: 393
    Clarkston,WA
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Mike, Brian,

    Thanks for the link and post, I just picked up a TFO DC 7wt, switch rod and am trying to decide what to line it with. I have heard and seen the terms Skagit and Scandi but didn't know the difference. Now I just need to decide what to line it with!


    Mark
  3. bhudda heffe'

    Posts: 1,949
    basement
    Ratings: +111 / 0
    i'll do skagit and scandi any day over an EGG! thats all i gotta say.. Brian , i will read your thingy later, ive been on the net lookin at fishin shit for (says the fiance'poo) like 4 hours, my eyes hurt. im sure the article is a good read, look forward to it.....tomorrow:)
  4. Winter run New Member

    Posts: 25
    On the river near you
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    I just picked up a Tim Rajeff Echo 10' 10" switch rod loaded w/ Ross CLA4 and Airflo 540g tactical shooting head; I will be learning how to Spey cast and fish with this setup!!! I haven't been this excited to get out and fish in a long time!!

    I'm open to suggestions at anytime!

    I'm gonna go back and read that article now.


    :beathead:
  5. Flyborg Active Member

    Posts: 2,309
    Kalama, WA
    Ratings: +602 / 0
    I think that 740 is going to be a bit much man.
  6. Winter run New Member

    Posts: 25
    On the river near you
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    I goofed Its Airflow 540 Skagit Tactical shooting head.... My Bad went back and lookd at my box :beathead:
  7. Flyborg Active Member

    Posts: 2,309
    Kalama, WA
    Ratings: +602 / 0
    OK much better :)
  8. rick matney Active Member

    Posts: 1,301
    Bozeman, Montana
    Ratings: +3 / 0
    Are kidding jarrod? 740g is perrrrfect! Let it rain!! J/K
  9. FT Active Member

    Posts: 1,242
    Burlington, WA
    Ratings: +102 / 0
    Mike,

    The Scandanavians also cast rather large and heavy brass tube flies on their floating Scandi lines. But, that is not what the purpose of my other post was. I was simply pointing out in a very short, somewhat tongue-in-cheek sentence that Scandi lines are used for casting rather large and heavy flies on rather large rivers to quite far distances. Additonally, I was also responding to my friend William's also tongue-in-cheek response and Kerry's rightfull observation that "Skagit casting and lines" have been around and used since the mid-1980's and aren't something new.

    I was also pointing out in the same tongue-in-cheek manner that anyone who writes about Skagit and Scandi lines and casting owes it to his readers to inform them that Skagit casting and lines have been around for 25+ years and that neither Skagit or Scandi hinders one's ability to fish or one's ability to cast and fish large flies, they just are different casting techniques. Just like those like myself and my friend William prefer to fish with long-belly lines and big rods and we catch our share of fish too, including with large and heavy flies when needed.

    Brian,

    The reason I think folks who write something for consumption by an audience of newcomers to spey casting or those inexperienced in spey casting (which the article in question is clearly aimed at) ought to inform them of the fact that Skagit has been around for 25+ years and that Scandi casters cast large, heavy brass tube flies a goodly distance is because the intended audience is uniformed and knows very little about spey casting. Thus, not providing this info to them results in them incorrectly thinking that Skagit casting is virtually brand new and that Skagit lines are the only and best way to go. This ends up with the unintended consequence of these newcomers thinking they know a lot more than they actually do and thus results in "instant expert" syndrom. In other words, the newcomers think they have the knowledge they need too tell others what lines to get, etc., eventhough they are not properly informed or knowledgeable. In effect, many of these newcomers with the limited knowledge they glean from an article such as yours become "experts" who think they are qualified to help others when they really aren't well-enough informed about 2-handed rods and the various types of spey lines and the advantages and disadvantages of each type.
  10. rick matney Active Member

    Posts: 1,301
    Bozeman, Montana
    Ratings: +3 / 0
    Huh......I guess I need a filson vest and a cigar before I know anything about regurgitating other peoples thoughts on a non-progressive form of a sport....... I mean, I would hate to stray from a closed-minded tradition to make something more efficent and effective for others that are not as sophisticated to pick up and have fun with.
  11. sothereiwas Member

    Posts: 304
    Issaquah, WA
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    How is the history of a casting technique relevant to a simple 3 paragraph article on the difference between the two lines. I would be interested in what your definition of " rather large fly" is. It would be nice if someone could contribute to the sport by informing the up and coming beginners without some asshat correcting them. :rolleyes:

    Brad "asshat police"
  12. KerryS Ignored Member

    Posts: 6,751
    Sedro Woolley, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +1,776 / 0
    Which came first the line or the casting technique? Discussion is good for all even when it is somewhat contentious which a lot of the time that contention is merely the perception of the reader and not the intention of the writer.
  13. Ed Call Mumbling Moderator

    Posts: 17,499
    Kitsap Peninsula
    Ratings: +1,473 / 9

    Brad, friendly wager here...I'm willing to wager that if an as of yet uninformed beginner who is up and coming in the two handed game were to study up a bit here or other information filled sites (which I don't participate in) and were to find a few posters who seemed to know their way around the two handers...and sent such members a well appointed PM there would never be a need for any rolling of the eyes, negative text based exchanges or terms like "asshat" or "asshat police" which [sarcasm coming] likely will garner you exactly the prime information that you covet. Sorry for the incomprehensible long run on sentence, but there are a bunch of guys here that post prickly responses when broad sweeping questions arise, but I've found many are quick to guide someone with limited knowledge and skill [I'm talking about me here, not you or anyone else] and give very clear, easy to visualize and attempt information.

    We've got great moderators here that quickly pounce on the out of control stuff and posters and let other topics go for the sake of letting our online community to chew on those ideas back and forth. Let them be the "asshat police".

    Best of luck with your two hander. As you get things figured out, I for one will gladly seek out your advice and guidance as I'm still terribly green in that game.
  14. Grayone Fishin' to the end, Oc.P

    Posts: 1,338
    boring, oregon
    Ratings: +111 / 0
    I think the article should be read and comprehended for what it was..........I don't believe that has been done:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:




    Gawd...........I posted rolled eyes:D
  15. sothereiwas Member

    Posts: 304
    Issaquah, WA
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    The simple fact is that Scandi and Skagit lines each have there purpose and they tend to overlap a bit. The fact is that on the west coast most guys are fishing on average a 7wt spey rod. Your northern european anglers use on average a 9wt rod. You are not going the throw the crap we chuck in the winter on a 7wt rod with a scandi line. It can be done but thats not the lines purpose and its not gonna look pretty or be any fun. There are to may guys that dont look a fly fishing from a practical standpoint. You will learn how to cast better and more consistently by using a setup that is designed for the application. I use a 12'6 5/6 for floating line scandi work in the summer will standard patterns up to a #1. I use a 13'2 9wt for unweighted tubes and standard patterns up to 3/0 on a scandi line. I use a 13'6" 8wt for throwing chickens with a skagit line, and of course everyone needs a 15' for throwing a 70' head and wearing yourself out in one run. :rofl:

    To each his own if you want that 7wt to do everything halfass enjoy.
  16. sothereiwas Member

    Posts: 304
    Issaquah, WA
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    I just think that it is in poor taste to pick apart what was intended to be a very simple article for no productive reason what so ever. If they spent half as much effort providing useful information in a non condescending manner as they do correcting people to inflate there ego everyone here would benefit more.
  17. CoastalCutt Member

    Posts: 547
    North Bend, WA
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    Why knock Brian for trying to help newcomers, myself included for trying to clarify areas of the two-handed hobby?
  18. FT Active Member

    Posts: 1,242
    Burlington, WA
    Ratings: +102 / 0
    sotheriwas,

    Does a fly tied on a 3" brass tube with a length in excess of 4" qualify as a "rather large fly"? Perhaps an Intruder chucked with a Scandi or even a long-belly (75' - 105' belly) line might qualify as one.

    Kerry S,

    Right on!
  19. Grayone Fishin' to the end, Oc.P

    Posts: 1,338
    boring, oregon
    Ratings: +111 / 0
    How far are you gunna' cast that scandi with brush 15 feet behind you?
  20. Steelie Mike Active Member

    Posts: 1,600
    Camas, WA
    Ratings: +24 / 0
    So you are saying you can cast a twenty five to fifty grain fly efficiently with a long belly and scandi line? I am not sure how many grains are in a three inch brass tube, but a three inch copper tube is fifty grains (appx 3.2 grams). I would love to learn how to cast them without pushing, not to mention lifting them out of the water. If you could provide some examples that we can learn from, we would appreciate it.