Do you give info on the lake?

Discussion in 'Stillwater' started by Wayne Kohan, May 22, 2011.

  1. Wayne Kohan fish-ician

    Posts: 1,028
    TriCities, WA
    Ratings: +99 / 0
    I was at Lenice today and did pretty well. Landed about 15-20 fish over about 6 hours out there, including some big ones and a tiger. Plenty of new plants out there though.

    When I was first there, there was only three of us on the lake and we were all on the west side. One guy was catching them every third cast or so, just slaying them with something under an indicator. There were a lot of fish rising around and I didn't seem to have them dialed in, but I caught some with chiros and some with dragging a leech and nymph. As I was passing the guy with the multiple fish, I asked him "What are you using under the indicator, if you don't mind me asking?" He answered, "I don't talk about that." He never even looked up or made eye contact. I answered "That's OK," and moved on. I will add that he was an excellent caster and kept a nice tight line, even without anchoring on a windy day. I will also add that he kept moving slowly around one area and casting in all directions, thus keeping a rather large area to himself, as I refuse to crowd anyone when there is so much water available.

    I respect his right to keep his info to himself, and I admit I was a little forward with the question, but given a similar situation, I think I would give at least some information. I have been out there on busy days and have been asked multiple questions about my techniques and have always answered them. In fact, I helped out a couple of guys as I was getting ready to leave. And others have helped me out before.

    So do you usually talk with other fisherman about what is working on the lake that day? Or is that private, top-secret info?

    Wayne
  2. jessejames Flyslinger

    Posts: 1,863
    Show Low, Arizona
    Ratings: +351 / 3
    I talk to everybody and give them all the information about what I am using. I often will give them a fly or two and tell them the proper way to fish it. Holy Lake fishing Batman it's only a lake. They will stock it again and most fly fishers you share with are C & R anyway. Lakes are different than your favorite Native Cutthroat stream. There is lots of room on a lake it is not going to get overfished by fly anglers.
    The guy was a jerk and gives fly anglers a bad name.
    This has happened to me and I always wanted to poke a hole in their pontoon boat.
    jesse
  3. Mark Mercer Member

    Posts: 1,144
    port orchard, wa
    Ratings: +505 / 0
    I think the guy was a jerk, what reason would anyone have to not share what's working for them, unless he was using worms, or power bait. I've been asked many times what I was using, when I was having success and was happy to tell them what was working for me and have asked others, when I was not doing well. I don't recall ever having someone give me a response like that. It just doesn't make since to me, it's not a competition...is it?
    IMO I think you handled it very well and I don't think you were at all out of line by asking him.

    Mark
  4. IveofIone Active Member

    Posts: 3,079
    .
    Ratings: +1,099 / 0
    Wayne, That guy has found his niche in life and it is being an asshole. He may have had a great day of fishing but I doubt that it compensates for the other inadequacies in his life. What a curse to be that small and selfish.

    Ive
    NutJobRob likes this.
  5. Chris Johnson Member: Native Fish Society

    Posts: 1,792
    Bellingham Wa.
    Ratings: +316 / 1
    Well stated Ive
  6. Gary Knowels Active Member

    Posts: 1,101
    Seattle, WA
    Ratings: +414 / 0
    In my very brief time of fly fishing, I've yet to run into anyone that refused disclosure. I really enjoy talking to people on the water and like to watch other people catch fish (as long as I'm not getting skunked). I've been fishing 1 particular old school fly a lot lately to good results and people ask me what I'm using, but I've only met 1 guy that knew what the fly was. For the most part, fly-fishers have been some of the friendliest people I've met and I hope to meet many more of you!
  7. Go Fish Language, its a virus

    Posts: 1,284
    Rheomode, Wa.
    Ratings: +93 / 0
    I've found it very rare to have someone refuse to
    give info out on a lake. If they ask me I'll tell
    because its not only the fly but a
    number of other just as important factors
    that equate into catching. Sounds like a
    you met a jerk....(I was somewhere else!).

    Dave
  8. troutpocket Active Member

    Posts: 1,784
    Ellensburg, WA
    Ratings: +335 / 0
    I gave a guy a fly and suggested he fish it twice as deep as he was trying on Saturday at Dusty. He re-rigged and promptly broke off a nice fish. I gave him another fly and suggested he up his tippet before I had to hike out. I got a cold Ranier and the satisfaction of seeing bugs I tied do the job. As Jesse pointed out, the lakes will keep getting stocked and 90% of the people fishing in special regs lakes are C&R anyway. No point in puting on the big ego show.
  9. Wayne Kohan fish-ician

    Posts: 1,028
    TriCities, WA
    Ratings: +99 / 0
    You notice that I stopped short of calling him a jerk, as I support his right to keep his hard-earned info to himself. However, I guess I support my right to think he was a jerk. Of note, I pumped the stomach of the next fish I caught and found a bunch of large black chiros. I put on a #12 ice cream cone and the day got suddenly better with the catching.

    Lake fishing has so many variables: location, depth, color, size, etc... It is nice to have someone else to help out with the all the possible combinations, but my buddy had to back out at the last second this time, and besides, I usually fish by myself.

    I remember my first time at Lenice many years ago. I was in my round innertube float tube. It took forever to get down to the west side. There was a gentleman standing in a pram, hooking fish on every cast. I was to his left and my buddy ended up on his right. Finally my friend asked him what color and he answered a size 14 black chiro. A few minutes later he looked over at me and said 4 feet down. All three of us spent the next hour watching our indicators go down on most casts. (I can't say I was good at hooking up at that time.) But that guy, who I never met, had more to do with me liking to fish Lenice than anyone.

    My next epiphany with chiro fishing came with a posting from one of our members here a few years ago. I've looked fo rthe post again and can't find it. I saved it on an old computer and it was reformatted. He talked about using a loop knot, and then using your hemostats to set the depth, and then work your way up in the water column. Thank you, whoever posted that. Maybe someone remembers that post and can find it, so I can send it to my buddy who is newer to the lake fishing thing.

    Fishing is supposed to be fun, not a contest. And I enjoy watching others catch fish, especially with my info.

    Wayne
  10. Go Fish Language, its a virus

    Posts: 1,284
    Rheomode, Wa.
    Ratings: +93 / 0
    Well said Wayne.

    Giving help, information, and tips
    makes fishing more fun. Learning
    about FFishing is one of the reasons
    we all do it. To deny info seem counter
    to what most of us enjoy in the sport.
    Knowledge being one.

    Dave
  11. Jmills81 The Dude Abides

    Posts: 1,901
    Spokane, WA
    Ratings: +146 / 0
    Yep, that dude was a farking turd. Lakes are the place I share damn near everything. Lake fishing sometimes is a social deal, and good karma goes a long way!
  12. Ed Call Mumbling Moderator

    Posts: 17,502
    Kitsap Peninsula
    Ratings: +1,473 / 9
    What a pricktard. If he is catching so many damn fish why not tell you what he was using, create some good will and see if he can get you tuned in to the fish too. If you are reading this Mister I don't talk about that Fishing is more enjoyable when pleasant and positive. If solo and positive, great. If around others, be positive and it will be good for all.
  13. Drifter Active Member

    Posts: 1,633
    Ratings: +648 / 2
    Last year at crane prairie we were just hammering some big fish out of the drift boat , a guy in a pontoon boat yelled over and said "he thought fishing was a quiet sport" it made us laugh because we were being quite load when landing 5 and 6 pound fish , we were just having a blast .

    He didn't ask us anything but i yelled over to him would you like a fly - he said yes and came on over , i gave him a epoxy nymph and told him how deep to fish it and where on his side of the channel , he was grateful and said thanks but i never saw him catch a fish .

    What you mention above - i have to respect the fishermans wishes , i mean its really none of my buisness , and he has every right to be left alone , fishing by himself - he must have a reason to want to be alone and i have to respect that and not call him a jerk . maybe he was self taught and doesn't think he needs to tell anybody anything , and that if someone wants to be a good fly fisherman they should learn or not catch fish . i really don't see where this is wrong . i mean why do guides get paid ? shouldn't they just give away what they know and learned over the years ? wouldn't it be safe to say by thinking this guy was a jerk that every guide is a jerk for taking money .

    almost everything i've done in fishing was self taught after the things my father taught me as a kid . i took over rowing the rivers and started teaching him and have taught many fisherman in all kinds of fishing never charging a dime , heck i rowed rivers for other people never even fishing hardly for 10 or 15 years . now i'm being selfish and going back to fly fishing and a lot of my friends hardly go steelheading anymore because i'm not rowing them done the rivers .

    HMMM i really don't know how to respond to the comments that i've read and not sound like a jerk - but i never would of even asked . "just goes to show i'm still learning"
  14. JMitchell Active Member

    Posts: 185
    Selah, wa
    Ratings: +35 / 0
    I am defenitely tight-lipped in certain instances, but I usually volunteer info on lakes when asked. If a guy is doing well and another guy asks him what he is using, it's ok to give a generic answer like "an olive chronie." You don't have to give guys flies or offer all info like size, color, rib, bead ect.

    I think color and size is important, but presentation and location much moreso. You can get alot of info just watching a guy fish with retrieve, line type, amount of splash upon entry (size of fly), count down rate ect. I know if a guy is doing well, I really will watch him/her and pay attention to details like these.

    I typically do volunteer flies and as much info as the guy wants if I am doing well and he/she asks for info. Being the antisocial type, I can understand wanting your space at times, but we can still be civil. I did have an experience in Utah on the Green when I guy asked me what I was using. I opened my flybox, showed him what I was using and asked him if he wanted one. The guy then proceeded to call me an f-ing liar and that this fly was much to simple. I pulled in my fly line, showed him the fly and told him where he could stick his 700$ fly rod. Needless to say, this turned me off to offering advice for a while, even though I know most guys are not like this.

    Just to clarify, this guy was a doosh-that response was a joke. I would rather a guy lie to me with the old "a size 12 black chroni" than give me this crap of "I don't talk about things like that."

    Jarron
  15. Rod Sand Member

    Posts: 77
    Tacoma Wa.
    Ratings: +2 / 0
    Isn't that part of the flyfishing sport is try to find out what bug to use,or is it just to go out and be brain dead and have somebody else do it for you?I myself enjoy the challange.Match the Hatch!
  16. Drifter Active Member

    Posts: 1,633
    Ratings: +648 / 2
    Over the years it's not the times i caught fish that i learned , it was the times i got skunked that "MADE" me learn .
  17. Mike Ediger Active Member

    Posts: 1,409
    Spokane, WA
    Ratings: +152 / 8
    I was lucky enough to have a couple guys, at Chopaka kind of take me under their wing when I was just starting out, and set a good example for me of how to treat fellow fisherman. Being alone and brand new to the sport, I simply asked if they had any advice for a newbie, and they just about spent a half hour talking to me, gave me their own personally tied flies, told me how to fish them, where on the lake they liked, the whole deal. I tried to stop them and said I was just looking for a little advice, but I didn't want to take their flies, and they insisted. It meant a lot to me, and I had a great time because of them. Since then, I have always tried to repay their kindness. I will tell you just about anything I know on the water, which isn't usually much.
    They aren't my fish, it isn't a competition, and we are all just trying to have fun. If I can help you out along the way, I will certainly try. Plus, I need to the good karma.:thumb:

    I have no idea who is a jerk and who isn't based on one interaction, but I do feel bad for the guy in your story, that he can't simply enjoy the sport and those he shares it with.
  18. Tim Lockhart Working late at The Office

    Posts: 1,951
    Mill Creek, WA
    Ratings: +283 / 0
    Good subject Wayne. As you mentioned, he was under no obligation to help out and I get Rod's point about the sport in it. On the other hand I would add that, realistically, the ability to figure it out on your own comes from a fair amount of time and experience on the water. Most guys out there are on the less experienced side and would greatly benefit from a little coaching along the way. It balances some fun and reward with all that frustration and, more importantly, keeps guys interested while they make their way along the curve. I know for sure a lot of folks don't stay at it because of things like difficulty in solving that ever changing puzzle on lakes. That and one or two negative encounters with the one ass in every crowd. Most of us have pretty limited time to put toward the sport so it's very conceivable that guys will just quit and do other things if outings just aren't fun.

    For what it's worth, in that situation his fly and the circle he was guarding were nothing exceptional. Neither had anything to do with his success but he and probably everyone around him thought both were the key to the universe at the time. Never been on that lake but I can say with reasonable confidence that those fish were simply active on midges and well spread out. All that really mattered was finding the right general depth and an area of relative concentration (he happened across one but there would be a number of them). It follows that a little observation would give an onlooker enough info to repeat the situation for himself, without the need for a conversation. Sounds like you pretty much did that as a second step. In his case, when a guy starts banging away at them with a still presentation (chironomid) I'll bet my last buck every time it's not his ice cream cone that matters. He simply has the depth and an area of concentration dialed in. Seriously you can hit that same depth and concentration with a piece of duct tape on a hook, even a moving presentation, and hit just as many. Sharing a fly is a nice gesture that I always recommend but, if you really want to help a guy, talk about depth, location and why those fish are there (what are they feeding on and how are they taking it). Then make sure he's using the right line for the task. The fly is a token afterthought but we treat it like the gospel.

    Couple of final thoughts. If he was seriously guarding his fly choice and a section of the lake, he didn't really know why he was onto those fish. That means he didn't have anything useful to offer you even if he wanted to.

    The real sadness here is how lonely and unfulfilling that way of life on the water would be. In reading your story I didn't feel sorry for you. Like Mike, I felt sorry for him. Hopefully he was just having a bad week and didn't feel like being social. If you ask me, the only thing better than hitting a bunch is helping another angler do it. I've had some very good outings this year but, to be honest, my favorite was sitting there watching Mumbles hunt down his first brown right in front of my face. Looking back, if I had told him to get F'd and figure it out on his own that would have been my loss.
  19. yellowlab Active Member

    Posts: 2,606
    In a van... down by the river, WA
    Ratings: +89 / 8
    I don't mind sharing info on the water, but when everyone starts encroaching on your 2 cast radius space because you're ripping fish, thats absurd. If someone is polite and keeps their distance and takes the time to observe and courtesy to ask I am happy to provide the information. I met up with a couple guys at the launch last week and even showed them some throat sampled Chironomids, which they'd never heard of before or let alone had seen. It was amazing for them to compare my fly with the natural and then this perplexed look on their faces wondering how that resembles a woolley bugger or leech. I used to be one of those guys who didn't understand stillwater and used to call it 'boring'. Once you put some time in and understand the biology and the habitat, it can be as rewarding as dead drifting nymphs for Montana browns or swinging for steelhead.
  20. plugboots Member

    Posts: 67
    Winthrop, WA
    Ratings: +1 / 0
    Wow, one comment by the guy and he's a jerk. There's more to the story. Maybe he just wanted to be left alone, and didn't feel like talking. Maybe he felt the OP got too close. Whatever.