Do you give info on the lake?

Discussion in 'Stillwater' started by Wayne Kohan, May 22, 2011.

  1. Travis Bille

    Travis Bille Active Member

    That's too bad. Friday night and Saturday morning were my first times at Lenice and I found almost everyone to be super nice and helpful. One gave gave me tips on chiro fishing and I didn't even ask! It was a fun bunch. And on a slightly more cheerful note, friday night was my first time night fishing and WOW! Those sucker hit hard!!
     
  2. Drifter

    Drifter Active Member

    I'm with rod on this one guys .

    I've always figured if i had to ask what fly to use or what technique then it wasen't me catching the fish . when people hire guides - who is catching the fish ? IMO its the guide not the fisherman .

    i started fly fishing in the 70's back then you had to read books and buy books for tying patterns . you had to be on the water to learn . for 13 years i traveled the western states for work and was able to fish rivers like the henry's fork and green river above and below flaming gorge - silver creek and a lot more . i never asked anyone for advice and sometimes paid the price ! on the henry's my father and i floated the canyon throwing stone flies and never landed a fish . that evening i fished by my self and landed one 21 inch rainbow and was very proud of that . it took me two days to figure things out and then i was catching some 20 big rainbows a day . on the green below flaming gorge i walked up to the river and started dead drifting it like a freestone river , it didn't take me long to figure out that i had to spot fish it like i would a flat spring creek and match the hatch almost exactly to be successful . but it was me that figure these things out , not some random guy i didn't even know telling me how to fish or what to use .

    I just started back into fly fishing heavy 2 years ago and the information over the internet is amazing . anyone can be a pro in no time at all , this wasent the case when i started fly fishing . i can pull up almost any fly from you tube and see exactly how to tie it in about 4 minutes , i can pull up most bodies of water and find 5 to 10 links of information with a touch of the fingers . and this isn't enough ? i have to still go out and bother someone else fishing alone because he is catching fish ? i can also pull up insect life cycles and watch the insect on video . man i wish it was this easy when i started .

    This need of immediate gratification of todays fisherman baffles me . success is earned , the feeling i get from figuring it out is what gives me gratification its what keeps me coming back and makes me the fisherman i am . what made me a much better fisherman was when i was twenty "i'm now 52" I was on the deschute's river and the river turned alive to a hatch , every trout in that river was rolling to flies on every foot of that river - i threw every fly i had in my box and never hooked a fish , i sat down and almost cried . but thats what "MADE" me the fisherman i am today . that day changed my life ! by most post on this subject i should of just asked someone what fly it was and took the easy way out and learned nothing .

    To the O.P. i'm glad you took the time to pump the stomach and find out for yourself what the fish were on . in hind sight which was better - doing that ? or if he would of told you what hatch it was , would you of felt the same success as you did figuring it out for yourself ? maybe he did you a favor in not telling you !!! you were able to post what "YOU" did to catch fish - and not what "HE" did that allowed you to catch fish - thats what i got out of the post was your success and the knowledge you had to get the info , thats what impressed me . and now we all want to call him an ass ? i don't think so ! all he said was "he didn't talk about that" he didn't call him stupid , he didn't say there flying all over the water idiot figure it out for yourself . he was nice , and to the point , and didn't look over because he was fishing an indicator and slaying the fish , he was tuned in and doing what a good fly fisherman dreams of - on a hatch - matched perfectly - catching fish almost every cast - depth was perfect . HE WAS NOT IN THE WRONG - IMHO If i saw him on the bank later i would of showed the respect he deserves and shook his hand telling him he did a great job today and it was fun to watch such a great fisherman .
     
  3. nz trout bum

    nz trout bum Member

    I guess I agree with both Rod and with the majority who felt the guy was a jerk. We are talking about two different things - how you want to fish/learn and how you treat others.

    I would rather figure things out on my own just because I get so much satisfaction out of the discovery and the "ah ha" experience. That is the root of the sport at least for me. On the other hand sharing information with fellow fishermen when they ask, or in some cases even when they don't, gives me a great deal of satisfaction. I really enjoy making somebodys day better when they have been having a blank day while others around them are catching. A side benefit is that I have been given more than I ever offered in the way of new water, better access, fly patterns etc.

    My last comment is that I do not take it as a personal insult to me or our sport if someone chooses not to share their hard earned information. Bad form - but a choice each of us makes. These people just don't realize how much he or she is missing. W
     
  4. Mark Walker

    Mark Walker Active Member

    As long as the person asked isn't rude in his answer, take it with a grain of salt. Some people just aren't friendly and prefer to be left alone. I can understand and respect that.
    There is no excuse for rudeness in my book, so take it under advisement.

    On the other hand, were you to ask me, I would be more than happy to share info, guide you in the right direction, give you a few flies and most likey chew your ear to the point of you wishing you'd kept your mouth shut.
    I'm a friendly guy.:)
     
  5. Lugan

    Lugan Joe Streamer

    That guy was a jerk, as others have noted. Sharing "secrets" one-on-one has near zero impact on a fishery either the day the information is shared or long-term. It's merely a way to be cordial to others in our little fraternity (that sometimes behaves like a sorority) of flyfishers.

    So I share...but on the water only. In fact, I shared on Saturday bobbing around on a lake with two guys near me who weren't hooking up. I even told them about a few other lakes nearby that they should try this summer, which is something I'd never do on an Interwebz forum like this.
     
  6. Gary Thompson

    Gary Thompson dirty dog

    "Don't ask, don't tell" not really.
    I will share info, and flies most every time, in fact I'm the one to start the conversation "How ya doing, I'm using a brown ? it's working really good."
    Now when it comes to my favorite streams, tight lips.
    As for calling this guy a jerk "those that live in glass houses"
     
  7. Gary Knowels

    Gary Knowels Active Member

    Asking what someone is using isn't always means of just tying on what he is fishing and not thinking about it. For me, being so new to the world of fly fishing and knowing very few patterns it becomes more of a way to learning about a new pattern than to blindly catch fish. I ask almost everyone what they are using, many times after the fisherman has called it a day. I enjoy learning about the different pattern and what they imitate. In fact, many times if I'm not having luck and ask someone that is having luck I will continue to fish my fly for a while and when i switch I often won't switch to the exact fly, but rather something of the same profile in a different color or the same color and size but different profile. Those things help me piece together information that I already have with new things like whether it is size, color, or profile (or more likely what combination of the 3) that fish are keying on to better understand trout and thusly the art of fly-fishing.
     
  8. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

    This thread is comical.

    Thanks for the entertainment and breaking up a boring day at work.
     
  9. Tim Lockhart

    Tim Lockhart Working late at The Office

    Kerry with all the good entertainment you've provided us over the years it's the least we could do :clown:
     
  10. skyrise

    skyrise Active Member

    have had the same happen @ Merry one day. guy was hitting fish every 10-15 minutes. what are ya using? oh its a gray thing bla bla. well ok be a jerk.
    anyway, always try to help others. its for fun folks. were not out after someones gold mine.
     
  11. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

    Touché!

    Now that is funny.
     
  12. stratocaster

    stratocaster Member

    People ask me what I'm fishing with all the time but then they follow it up with something like, "Man, I'm glad I don't have any of those, you haven't caught crap. Here, try one of these....!" Anyway, I never have any problem telling them the secrets to my skunkings!
     
  13. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Yes. While I'm not often one of the hot hands, I don't have any issues answering questions about what I'm using and how I'm fishing...even offering up a fly if I have extras. I can't remember the last time someone took the attitude you described... but to each his/her own.
     
  14. KenPCPilot

    KenPCPilot New Member

    Basically the guy is a dick. Just cuz he fly fishes don't assume he isn't. Try open ended questions or jokes and get a feel if he is a talker or not. I admit at first I am little reserved but never put anyone even the most filthy gutter drunk off that hard. Try "Dude you are really pulling them in today. What are you using green or pink powerbait?" or at a C&R lake "Do you have any keepers on the stringer?" "Are you having any luck? I can't get a dam thing to bite these Gulp worms" "I see you pulled a couple of nice ones. I would have too but I keep my hooks pretty dull so I won't snag myself on the back cast." or Option #2 carry a pellet pistol and shoot a hole in his watercraft. just slap the water hard to mask the shot sound.
     
  15. wet line

    wet line New Member

    Fish Central and I share pretty much the same views. I too started fly fishing in the early 70's when it was considered somewhat impolite to ask questions regarding what a person was using. Even my teachers wouldn't tell specifics. They would hand me half a dozen flies and then let me figure it out.
    Frustrating most definately but I did learn to observe and figure things out in time.

    So once again here is a thread that shows polar opposite views. If you don't act how I think you should act then YOU are the jerk. Verses, take some time and observe and learn and figure it out for yourself.

    I will coach someone if I see them really making an effort and not having success and they respect the water I am fishing. I enjoy watching people catch fish. I don't appreciate people who think that I have to tell them and it is apparent by the attitude that surrounds them. A lot of the stillwater I regularly fish took several years to figure it out and it only made me a better fisherman doing so. It is quite apparent what I am doing if someone sits back and observes what I am doing. So if I am asked a question like what type of sinking line I am using, I am more inclined to give specific info and how I am making my presentation simply because the person sat back and did some observation before approaching.

    If I know you and trust you enough to sit still in the front of my canoe I will not only show you how I am fishing but where to fish and how to approach things, where and when to anchor up and where to drift through.

    Dave
     
  16. Tim Lockhart

    Tim Lockhart Working late at The Office

    You guys certainly aren't wrong, and without your thought out and well explained views I don't think we have a discussion here. I found myself in the middle of this one. Wayne made it clear the guy didn't break any laws so to speak, and it's not anyone's place to judge him (chances are he's one of us). That part doesn't matter, but what does is there really are some real asses out there and I don't think anyone disputes that. It matters because of the effect it has out on the water. It dampens fun and, worse, discourages newer anglers. And I think all the reaction here proves how many guys have run across it.

    I'm another who started in the 70's. I was a kid then but can remember that even books and magazines weren't what they are now. I also learned on my own after my single mom bought me some gear and took me out (the fly part came later but same thing, self taught). I understand the value in learning this way and a lot of guys still prefer it. On the other hand I've had the opportunity to help a lot of guys out who really enjoyed and appreciated it. I think different guys learn better in a variety of ways, some on their own, some with more interaction. It's like playing an instrument where some are better off self taught and others benefit from a lot of instruction. But the thing they all have in common is there's no such thing as a handout. All the help in the world, even the web itself, is useless until you sit for hours, days and weeks putting in the time, doing the work, being frustrated and sounding like crap before anything good happens.

    I guess that's where I'm a little different based on my own set of experiences. The interaction and sharing of information are good for people, and handouts don't exist since a guy still has to spend countless hours making his own hands work the magic even if he was spoon-fed all the best information. From doing a lot of this, it's easy to tell a guy what he should do, but incredibly difficult getting him to do it successfully with his own hands. Realistically, a first attempt is made with rather dismal results, then hopefully he goes off and spends time practicing until some success comes later on. Just like playing the guitar or piano, this stuff will never come for free and there's only one way to get it. It has to be earned with commitment over time, but I think the smarter students seek help. Why wouldn't you learn faster and end up better at it if given the opportunity?

    I do understand the sport in figuring stuff out, and even prefer for myself. I've just run across enough guys who are better off with more interaction. But they still don't wake up good at it the next day...not even Kerry :clown:
     
  17. dryflylarry

    dryflylarry "Chasing Riseforms"

    I don't think his reply was too unusual or he was being a jerk. Some of us guys tying our own creations don't have "names" for some of our flies because it could be a little different from some traditional tie or something. I can understand his response ... "well, it's a gray body thingy witha dohickie kinda thorax, bla bla bla. Maybe some variation of a callibaetis or something...
     
  18. nvgpeter

    nvgpeter New Member

    Personally, I take it as a compliment when I am asked what fly I am using. I always offer a fly if I have more than one. The worst fly-doosh I've encountered was on Pass Lake. A guy in a float tube was fishing his way down the bank on the far side until he came to where I was and said "you're going to have to move - I'm working my way down this side" I said "can't you go around me?" and he replied" I fish here all the time and I don't go around anyone"
     
  19. Kaari White

    Kaari White Active Member

    Please say you didn't move? That guy has issues!
     
  20. kingpuck

    kingpuck new to fly fishing but loving every minute of it

    This is an interesting discussion. Was out on Lake Ballinger a few nights ago as I can walk the new float tube down to the water from the house now and didn't have much luck. A gentleman and his friend came out on the water and were really doing well. Caught some nice holdovers and everything. We chatted a bit on the water and then as it got dark we both ended up coming in at the same time. We got to talking about different places to fish and I happen to say that I should go pick up whatever fly it was that he was using. He gave me one of the flies which have since been recreated a few times. Wish there was a cigar or something in my pocket to share with the guy (will have to invest in a box soon). It's people like this gentleman that restores my faith in humanity and fly fishing. All too often we get a bad rap from others (gear guys) and to some extent it is earned by the few like the gentlemen on the lake. But like my grandfather says we all have to learn to get along.