Does tradition matter while steelheading

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Steelheadjunky, Feb 23, 2006.

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  1. Ok. I give.

    You swingers wrapped in tradition are soooooooo cool! I meant it!
    I wish I was like you. I am so impressed with the line and mending skill you guys demonstrate going through a run… I’m just astonished really.
    God only know nymphers can’t do that.
    Hell just swinging a fly makes you a better environmentalist.

    Not only do you guys make better fisherman but better people too.
    You guys are so cool, in fact that I don’t blame you for looking down on other fishermen that don’t do what you do.
    Man how do you tolerate us on the same water?
    Well maybe it because you want us to find our fishing souls and don’t want us to miss out on the higher meaning.
    I mean we are only 2nd class flyfishers.
    I’m just so glad that you care so much about what we do.
    We might get lost or something without your guidance and insights.

    I was just wondering…is there a course I can take to help me be like you guys?
    Do you guys have a club or something?
    How do you join?
     
  2. Good post Andy! True dat! True dat!
     
  3. Damn Mike, you beat me to it....I was going to go after IBN's eggs!!! :rofl:
     
  4. Fishing is my escape from the rat race and I'm not about to worry about what anyone else thinks about how I do it. I fish a lot, on the swing, with dries, with indicators, I love it all. One stretch of river I fish a lot has hardly any good swing water, it's really just a trout stream, deep and narrow with lots of overhead brush, so I fish indicators and nymphs there because it's a great place to fish and I'm not going to give up fishing there just because the water isn't suitable for swinging. I kind of shake my head at predudiced speynazis who say "fish the swing or don't fish at all" it's kind of funny, some of those guys have a serious chip on their shoulder. But that's their perogative, they're entitled to their opinion just as much as I am I gues.....I just think that you fish you should be kind and respectful to others and try not to pre-judge. This is supposed to be about coming together with our fellow anglers not drawing lines in the gravel bar over what way to fish is right and wrong.

    As far as tradition goes, let's celebrate it and remember it. Fish greased-line style or dries when it makes sense, try some old patterns, let's never forget our past. But there isn't any reason why we shouldn't strive to create a new tradition as well. 100 years from now people will be saying...remember back in the 90's when people were fishing nymphs for steelhead with yarn and those ancient graphite rods..man that is so old school!

    -John
     
  5. JJ has a strong point...

    And as usual all the usual suspects jump aboard and call 'elitest', 'snob', etc.

    My father didn't teach me yet I found solace in swinging flies.

    Back in my 'earlier', mid-late 80's, years of 'flyfishing' I too would get twisted up over people saying 'nymphing with an indicator' isn't really flyfishing. What? What do you mean you judgemental A-hole? I'm using a fly rod/reel/line and even a hand tied 'fly' (whether a glo bug or nymph) I'm flyfishing and that's final.

    Take a good look at just the method of dead drift nymphing with an 'indicator'. I see ZERO difference between that rig and a 'gear' fisher using a float and jig. While the delivery (and gear used) of the 'lure'/offering is different, and the 'lure'/offering itself may be different (at times), the IDENTICAL objective is being accomplished. If it looks like a duck...

    Take the indicator off and high stick it and now you have drift fishing. If it walks like a duck...

    Ask any dyed in the wool gear fisher that is coherant of flyfishing methods. I have yet to meet one that doesn't believe the nymphing fly angler isn't just gear fishing with a fly rod. If it talks like a duck...

    Does that mean 'nymphers' aren't being legal? No. Does that mean 'nymphers aren't being ethical? No. Does that mean 'nymphers' aren't having fun? No. Does it mean 'nymphers' aren't really flyfishing? No. That is up to the individual. I don't consider it flyfishing and therefore don't fish that way any longer. I realize that it is truly a duck. If I am going to use the method for steelhead I will darn well use a Centrepin Reel and have a blast. Nobody is saying it isn't fun, ethical, or legal if used properly.

    But if I am going to flyfish then I am going to move that fish to my fly. And not just a foot. The more feet that fish moves the more fun it becomes. And ultimately more rewarding for me. I am going to do it with hand tied flies. Not glue eggs. (What are you thinking Mr. Doughty??? No more soft hackles for you.) ;) ;) ;) Many of which are traditional spey or dee patterns (or variations thereof but retaining the style).

    Traditional methods have nothing to do with having to use wood and silk. So, please, get that out of your craw as a reason to discredit.

    Choose to fish how you want and stay legal. Keep the released fish in the water. And stay off of my river.

    William
     
  6. Well hello william, my point was that i will fish whichever method i feel like and enjoy it, whether it be swinging, nymphing, dries or whatever, basically that all depends on the water. some water is more suitable to certain types of presentation as everyone knows. one thing for sure, i won't look at someone else that is fishing a different method then me and think, what a f@#$ing loser. what do you mean no more soft hackles/ that syl's midge, which i have a lot of now, has been a better producer for me then anything else i have been fishing.
     
  7. this is going to fun.... :cool:

    So are you saying those guys using a spinning rod to float and jig fish with floating line, a hand tied marabou jig are really fly fishing??? :confused:
    ;)

    So let's see if I have this straight.... If I swing a fly, where I cast, mend, swing, pause, strip, step, etc (or whatever variation you choose) and cover the water as well as I can using some kind of attractor 'fly', and keep my fly in the 'zone' in hopes that somewhere along the run, i'll just about bump a fish in the face or back it down and eventually pi$$ it off enough that it bites out of aggression, hmmmmmmmm you know, I know died in the wool spoon fisherman who fish nearly the exact same way - swinging spoons.

    So does that mean swinging isn't really fly fishing but SPOON FISHING????? :eek: If it looks like a duck….

    :rofl:


    How do you control how far the fish moves?? Especially in 34 degree water??

    Are you suggesting the steelie I watched swim 10-20 feet over to my nymph to slam it was really just snagged or flossed or something????




    So if anyone here wonders what "traditional" means, we simply need to ask you, right? :thumb:



    :rofl:
    I love these ridiculous threads. Really makes me smile at the end of a busy week :beer2:
     
  8. I understand what you're saying William. But I can also understand why some flyfishers would get upset when told they aren't "really" flyfishing. By definition from the WDFW reg book a Fly is
    "A lure on which thread, feathers, hackle, or
    yarn cover a minimum of half of the shank of
    the hook. Metallic colored tape, tinsel, mylar,
    or bead eyes may be used as an integral
    part of the design of the fly pattern."

    So explain to me why it's no longer a fly if it's nymphed instead of swung?

    Des
     
  9. Ahhh tradition..... Let's enact some.

    I think it fit to tell thee these following truths, that I neither undertake, nor write, nor publish, and much less own, this set of rules to please myself; and, having been too easily drawn to do all to please others, as I proposed not gaining of credit by these understandings, SO I would not willingly lose any part of that.

    1. All Gentlemen shall don a tie while fly fishing. The knot of thee tie must cover the fastened top button of the Gentleman's shirt at all times. The tie may consist or tweed or silk (for the more fashionable angler), but never of polyester. Polyester ties are only worn by the proletariat, never a gentleman.

    2. One must always greet a fellow angler with a "Good day kind sir (or madam as the case may be). Tis a glorious day is it not?" . For failure to o some would be deemed rude.

    3. One must always respect a fellow angler's space giving a minimum of 15 yards betwixt one's self and a fellow angler if each is using a traditional casting rod. One must place a minimum of 25 yards between each other if one of the anglers is using a two-handed salmon rod (also referred to by the colonists as a 'Spey' rod).

    4. A gentleman angler shall never drink coffee after the tenth hour in the morning, or after the first of the mornings draught. Nor shall he drink hard sprits before the third hour after noon. During mid day a gentleman shall consume only water or ale. Flavored soda water should never be consumed by an angler neither during a day fishing nor at any point in the normal course of his life.

    5. If an angler is to wear a hat while fishing, said hat must have a brim. Said brim must extend the entire circumference of the hat. Headware on which the brim only covers part of the circumference of the head (like the headware for cricket or polo) should only be worn during the participation of the activities that they were intended for.

    6. Gentleman anglers should be weary of criticism of fellow fly-fishers appliques. One must remember that it is an art to deceive a salmonid with an artificial fly. For it is more sharp sighted than any hawk, and more watchful and timorous than your high-mettled merlin is bold. Both swinging and nymphing are arts and arts worth your learning.
     
  10. If you are using a fly rod, fly reel, fly line and flies then you are fly fishing. if you are making 100ft. casts, chuck and duck method, weighted fly or not, eggs, classic hairwing, spey, marabou patterns you are fly fishing. if you are nymphing, indicator or not, swinging, sub surface or top, casting up stream or down, split shot or not then you are still fly fishing. who gives a shit which way a person prefers to present the fly? i personally prefer to swing flies because i think the take is more exciting, but will change methods in a heart beat if i feel like it. this is the reason i hate people, someone is always looking down on others because they don't do things the same way. and i'm spent.
     
  11. 1. Yes, you are a usual suspect.
    2. I'd love to see you all f*^$ed up on a river nymphing for steelhead. I was a spin guy before the fly and the casting is a cinch, no mending is required, and presentation is almost guaranteed. Not so, when nymphing. Well, when you do it right! I have a funny felling you'd be a real kick to watch with your "bobber" on the river. Your statement about nymphing shows your completely uneducated about the topic.
    3. Let me see, the delivery is different, the gear is different, the technique is different; but it's ZERO difference? Well said Professor! OUR OBJECTIVES ARE ALWAYS THE SAME! What are you doing when doing the difficult, always practical swing? Hoping to snag a root wad?

    Off the perch old owl, the mice still taste good. Real good!
     
  12. cherrio, cherrio my fine lad.:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
     
  13. My good Sloan, would you consider engraving that on a plaque? It would go very nicely over yon tying table.

    That's some funny stuff!!:thumb:
     
  14. Mike,

    Notice the ;) ;) ;) That means I'm funnin ya. Don't get all bent I was just kidding.

    William
     
  15. That is the challenge and what I enjoy doing. And Mr. Baker your first point illustrates how little you know about swinging. Misunderstanding on both sides it what propogates all this rhetoric.

    As usual this thread comes up again and again and I do not think the posters main initiative was to attack nymphers. You guys are just too sensitive. It really does not matter. What does is we have a connection with the folks who came before us and owe alot of our sport to them and thier innovations. It is lame to say well they killed all our fish and discredit it all. Being flippant and dismissive does not help anything. Neither does people harrasing you for how you fish on the river. I choose to swing flies but if I saw that happening to anyone out there fishing how they chose the offender would be getting a 16'1" colonoscopy.

    I feel being cognitive of the past with an eye towards the future is the best way to live life in general, not just fishing.

    -sean
     
  16. Chad K..good point...I'd add that swinging spinners is almost identical to swinging flies and spoons. Almost no difference in casting or direction of casting, in fact spinner fishemen try to "swim" a spinner just like I do when swinging a fly. However you'll never ever get me to say that spinner fishing and swinging the fly is the same thing, as it clearly isn't, just as any knowledgable indicator fisherman will insist there is quite a bit more involved in getting a good drift with an indicator using a fly rod than a spinning rod and a float.
     
  17. My point was - that unless you are sight fishing and actually see where the fish was holding and how far it moved - how do you know if it moved 2 inches or 20 feet?? you just get surprised by the slam you suddenly feel. Some guys (not me) are convinced that swinging is really just flossing and the 'take' is what happens after the leader slides through the mouth and the hook pokes the fish in the mouth, and the fish then turns, bolts, or head shakes - thus 'slamming' the fly. I know it's not true, but it is just as wrong as the view some guys have toward nymphing...
     
  18. iagree
     
  19. Allright John,

    What came to prominance first? The swinging wet fly or swinging spinner/spoon? Who copied who?

    William
     
  20. yes i noticed and i wasn't taking you seriously. i hit the green with rockstar caddis a few weeks ago and they were the only thing working for me.
     
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