Does tradition matter while steelheading

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Steelheadjunky, Feb 23, 2006.

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  1. sean

    sean Member

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    Chad it is maybe in my head but I have caught fish on nymphs and also swinging. I think you can feel when you have moved a fish in winter cause your flies get absolutely slammed. Not to say it never happens in nymphing but usually the takes are so slight, hence the bobber to help detect them. For me the take is king an I like swinging takes. The majority of them are just more exciting to me than watching a bobber bounce up and down.

    Also in the summer when fishing floating lines with skating or just below surface flies you are always moving fish. Not many steelhead I know of hang out in the top 2 inches of the water column.

    -sean
     
  2. alpinetrout

    alpinetrout Banned or Parked

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    I suppose Backyard and I had it coming a few months back when a group of guys swinging flies with spey rods blatantly low-holed us while we were nymphing our way through water that didn't even lend itself to swung flies, right? Ironically, the only steelhead I hooked that day was on a swung fly, but I probably lost it as payback for my blasphemy earlier in the day, right? Tradition means nothing, ethics mean everything.
     
  3. inland

    inland Active Member

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    Jason, Chad, et all-

    "Does that mean 'nymphers' aren't being legal? No. Does that mean 'nymphers aren't being ethical? No. Does that mean 'nymphers' aren't having fun? No. Does it mean 'nymphers' aren't really flyfishing? No. That is up to the individual."

    What part of that did you skip?

    William
     
  4. Jason Baker

    Jason Baker Member

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    My first point was "You are a usual suspect." Point #2 referred to spin fishing. Read before commenting....
     
  5. sean

    sean Member

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    Tradition says not to low hole some one. Ethics comes into play on whether or not you decide to respect that tradition. They are both intertwined.

    -sean

    ps I hope you gave those guys a piece of your mind.
     
  6. bigtj

    bigtj Member

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    Not that it really matters which came first, but for the record people have been fishing spoons and spinner-like lures for salmon for hundreds of years in Europe. Patents on many of the french-style spinners used today (i.e. mepps) go back to the early and mid 19th century. I've even seen several hundred year old american indian hand-line hooks that were made to look like fish, a crude yet ancient form of a lure. I can't remember the Zane Grey story name but I remember reading one of his earliest stories about him fishing spinners in the 20's at a logging camp for steelhead in a brawling river I think it was in Washington. That would have been about 50 years before 2-handed rod even began to become slightly popular for steelhead and salmon fishing. I would be willing to bet that spoons and spinners were used extensively fishing for steelhead in the pacific northwest long before a fly angling tradition was established - back in those days people had to put food on the table and didn't have the luxury to sit around and think about what kind of fishing they did.

    The greatest irony is that that many of those 16-18 foot greenheart rods on the Spey and Dee were used with older forms of lures as well as flies, and also were used extensively to fish bait:eek: .
     
  7. inland

    inland Active Member

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    Chad,

    Since you like playing devils advocate...what is your definition of flyfishing? In the couple of years I have been reading this board I don't recall one time that you have given anything more than counterpoint,with intent to dispell, to anybody that gives a personal opinion of what constitutes flyfishing to them.

    William
     
  8. Big Tuna

    Big Tuna Member

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    Anyone changed their opinion yet?:eek: This dead horse's been whipped beyond recognition.
     
  9. chadk

    chadk Be the guide...

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    Sounds like a chicken and egg situation. Or a duck and egg in this case :hmmm:
     
  10. inland

    inland Active Member

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    John,

    Where does the swung wet fly history fall into line with 'spinners' and 'spoons', not imitative lures, considering Berners? And that she was predated by the Chinese by a long time?

    Just curious.

    William
     
  11. inland

    inland Active Member

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    Chad,

    Once again another useless quip. Do you ever offer anything backed by personal opinion or experience?

    William
     
  12. alpinetrout

    alpinetrout Banned or Parked

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    We didn't have to after 'yard hooked a fish that took him downstream into the water they were flogging.
     
  13. chadk

    chadk Be the guide...

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    Fred,

    All I'm saying is that if it looks like a duck, swings like a duck, presents like a duck, attracts like a duck, get's a response like a duck, it must be a duck. I'm using your logic. Does it matter who did it first or who coppied who?

    You can call it fly fishing if you want, but for now on, when I see someone swinging - especially with a spey rod, I'm going to think about ducks and spoons I'm afraid.

    ;)

    (I'm really not taking this too seriously if you can't tell - just pointing out that your duck logic is kinda silly)
     
  14. Desmond Wiles

    Desmond Wiles Sir Castaline

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    Why did you leave out the remainder of your quote? Perhaps I should quote it in it's entirety and maybe this will explain why we "skipped" it. ;)

    So you begin by saying that yes, nymphers are indeed flyfishers, but conclude that you see it as a duck (gear fishing), and that it is not flyfishing. Those of us that disagree with you are simply disagreeing with you. As far as I'm concerned your argument is hosed! :p

    Des
     
  15. chadk

    chadk Be the guide...

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    A useless opionion vs a useless quip - they seem about equal to me. I have a very strong opinion and lots of personal experience with quips.

    I've provided TONS of useful tips, pointers, suggestions, opinions, and valuable enteratianment :clown: to this site over the years - I have earned the right to post a few useless quips. :ray1:

    It's all in fun, especially on a friday after a week like I've had... :beer2:
     
  16. Joshw

    Joshw Tamer of Trouts

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    .......Yawn.......


    1.9/10....horse has been beat to death, revised from the dead and beat again one to many times....
     
  17. coffeeand trout

    coffeeand trout New Member

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    Steelhead junky mentions in his first post that his "special river" had to be "regulated because people couldn't control themselves". Was he referring to the "no weighted fly" regulation enacted on the North Fork Stilly because folks were targeting Summer Kings with SWUNG egg-sucking leeches and rabbit fur/marabou streamers...... ethics and tradition apply both to the style of fishing and the treatment of the fish. Just because you swing doesn't mean a darn thing, as has been said before, it's the experience.
    I swing and nymph (glo bug) and am good enough at both to enjoy myself.
    I've met nice folks who only would swing a fly, I didn't have any problem fishing with them or enjoying the fishing. I would have an issue with some person (rethought what description to use, person was nicest) who dictated to me how I need to fish. If you don't like the way it is, waaah.
    Maybe with the next regulation change opportunity all of our fly only waters could be using a "swung method only".....especially Rocky Ford.

    Coffee and trout
     
  18. chadk

    chadk Be the guide...

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  19. John Hicks

    John Hicks Owner and operator of Sea Run Pursuits

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    Ok, I'll get in on this one.

    I myself for my personal preferance will swing flies for steelhead. I don't even like to swing big hairy cone headed things. I tie traditional feather flies for steelhead and I fish them on the swing quartering down. I don't do this to be a snob. I do it because to me and by me I mean ME, I pay reverance to the steelhead by using a beautiful technique with a well dressed thought out fly. I do this because I myself think that a steelhead deserves my best every time out. I do not however belittle or think any less of someone that uses any other ethical method to catch them. IBN, you flossing fish is just fine by me. ;)

    John Hicks
     
  20. inland

    inland Active Member

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    Chad,

    I caught all of the emoticons throughout your posts. I was hoping you would contribute something.

    Don't think the analogous logic of swinging spinners or spoons wasn't lost on me. I pondered this many years ago. I find that type of fishing enjoyable as well. But not as enjoyable as swinging a fly using fly rod/reel/line as it is far too effective.

    I don't find dead drifting something suspended under a float enjoyable. I care not if it requires flycasting 'skills', fly line mending 'skills', or uses a hand tied 'fly'. Once you get good with the method it becomes too easy to fool fish. Way easier to fool fish than when swinging flies. I can't replace the 'feel' (that is accompanied with a good grab while swinging on a tight line) with that of watching for a flash, leader move, or indi show signs something has altered the drift of your offering.

    This in neither snobbery or elitist behavior. I am not imposing my way on yours. I am not telling you how to fish. I am not saying 'my' way is better. I am not saying what is more fun for you. I am just giving personal opinion on how I FEEL about the subject and why I don't play that way anymore. You may find great challenge in nymph tactics. I don't.

    Coffee- it's not the NF Stilly he is referring to.

    William
     
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