DON'T BUY CND RODS

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by kamishak steve, May 1, 2012.

  1. kamishak steve Active Member

    Posts: 359
    Seattle, Wa
    Ratings: +67 / 0
    I had happily owned a CND custom spey 13'6 8/9 for 7 years. It was a butter smooth rod, cast great, and it was my go to winter stick. On a recent trip to the skeena, the rod broke, just folded in half on my first cast. No big deal, rods break, it happens.
    The issue here is that because the initial U.S. distributor is no longer, there was nobody in the US that would fix it, this meant 1 sending the rod back to Japan (if i could find who to send it to, just try going to the CND spey USA website and getting any information) 2 finding out if my rod would even still be covered. Turns out, it wasn't. I've copied the email I received from the head of CND japan to show you what kind of 'customer service' they provide. Basically they want me to pay 320 bucks to buy a new rod because they are unwilling to repair a rod I bought with an unconditional lifetime warranty. I would never expect this kind of treatment from sage, loomis, winston, scott, or any of the other major rod manufacturers. Needless to say I wrote them back saying that they had lost a former customer. I'm still just livid. I don't normally ever slander a company or a business, but this was outrageous and totally inconsistent with industry norms.

    > Hi Steve,>> Thanks for your continuous interest and use of CND spey rod.>> As we have no longer distribute our products to USA and your rod has been> sold by initial distributor of North America, CND Japan could only offer limited warranty service.>> And please kindly understand that Lee and Nancy got no responsibility for> those rods sold> by initial distributor and they are just giving service by their generous> voluntary mind to CND customers.>> Follows are detail contents of my last offer.>> 1: Warranty parts cost $144.00-> 2: Difference of price $173.00- (B.Spey 13'6" #7/8/9 - Custom Spey 13'> #8/9)> 3: Shipping cost $ 33.00- (CND Japan taking half of shipping> cost)>> Total $350->> All prices are calculated based on Japan domestic prices for the warranty.> (Exchange yen80 / US$)>> This offer to replace a new B.Spey 13'6" rod (RRP $725.00- Japan price)> which offers 4 section with better specification.>> If you are not happy with this offer, I could only reduce another half of> shipping cost for $33.00-> So total $317.00- (Shipping cost free) This is the best I could offer.>> Kind regards,>> Nobuo Nodera>> CND Japan.

    >> Nobuo,>>>> The rod that I purchased with an "unconditional warranty" cannot be>> repaired, and can only be replaced for 350 dollars?! There has to be>> some>> other option for replacement. I understand that the rod has been>> discontinued, but other manufactures typically offer the exchange>> without>> an additional 250 dollar fee. I hope we can come to some kind of>> arrangement. Thanks - Steve>>>>>> Best I could do is exchange to B.Spey 13'6" rod with difference of>>>> price and spare section cost.>>>> Which should be around $250- + shipping cost ($100-)>>>> Then he could get new B.Spey 13'6" from Japan.>>>> If only he could accept this offer, I could arrange exchange service.>>>> Best regards,>>>> Nobuo.
  2. Patrick Gould Active Member

    Posts: 2,356
    Ellensburg, WA
    Ratings: +688 / 1
    I broke an NON WARRANTIED entry level Orvis. I called them up and didn't expect much except to maybe be able to buy a new tip section. Even though it wasn't a warrantied rod they still offered me a much better deal on a new rod than CND is offering you.
  3. James Mello Inventor of the "closed eye conjecture"

    Posts: 2,787
    Tacoma
    Ratings: +88 / 0
    Who gave you the unconditional warranty? Just curious as I know that before Lee and Nancy there were issues related to CND.
  4. kamishak steve Active Member

    Posts: 359
    Seattle, Wa
    Ratings: +67 / 0
    When I bought the rod, it like any sage, winston, etc, comes with a manufacturers warranty. What the owner is trying to do is remove himself from responsibility of the warranty by claiming that is the previous distributors responsibility, not the manufacturer. Before Lee and Nancy took over, the rod had broken but had been fixed. The dealer I bought it through was Juro Mukai.
  5. James Mello Inventor of the "closed eye conjecture"

    Posts: 2,787
    Tacoma
    Ratings: +88 / 0
    I wasn't trying to make a statement, but rather find out where the warranty came from. From what I understood, CND rods came with a 1 year limited warranty, so it was mostly informational....
  6. obiwankanobi Active Member

    Posts: 1,311
    Ratings: +98 / 0
    There are too many great American made rods for me to ever consider a rod made overseas. Too bad about your loss.
    danimal likes this.
  7. o mykiss Active Member

    Posts: 1,303
    .
    Ratings: +176 / 0
    Are you sure it came with an unconditional lifetime warranty? I bought a Solstice a number of years ago through Poppy's shop and it definitely did not come with an unconditional lifetime warranty. The warranty covered defects at no cost but provided that accidental breakage would be repaired at a "reasonable cost". If you had the same warranty, seems like the most you can really quibble with is whether the cost he has proposed is "reasonable".
    Greg Price likes this.
  8. inland Active Member

    Posts: 595
    .
    Ratings: +46 / 0
    Same warranty all of mine came with. Warranted for defects, all other breakages were 'reasonable cost'.
  9. Brian Thomas Active Member

    Posts: 802
    Kamloops B.C
    Ratings: +120 / 0
    It sucks that CND would take this approach to customer service . Difficult to build customer loyalty when the company won`t support the customer .
    They do make great rods though . If , and when my Solstice breaks , I guess I`ll just have to suck it up and take it like a champ , and replace it with another rod from a manufacturer that is more customer friendly .
  10. Salmo_g Active Member

    Posts: 7,483
    Your City ,State
    Ratings: +1,621 / 0
    K. Steve,

    As a CND owner as well, I'm pretty sure that the rods don't come with an unconditional lifetime warranty. I think O. mykiss and Inland are correct. I broke the tip section of my Solstice when I slipped and fell and dropped the rod a year and a half ago. I got a new tip from SRO for $80 or $90.

    As for your warning, CND rods are nearly impossible to buy now, except in the used market, due to no US distributor. Frankly I like the rods so well that I briefly thought about seeing if I could acquire the distributorship as a part-time activity since I'm nearing retirement, but I got to thinking it might be closer to full time in which case it makes more sense to stay with my current job.

    The upshot seems to be that the warranty is different than you believed, so the real problem has more to do with the current lack of distributorship. I don't buy rods based on warranty, but many people do, and raising the issue is useful. Good luck whatever you decide. The 13' 8/9 Custom, like the 7/8 (I had 3 of those before upgrading to the Solstice), are nice Spey rods.

    Sg
  11. Klickrolf Active Member

    Posts: 566
    Klickitat, Washington
    Ratings: +140 / 0
    Repairs are possible, depending on the break. Steve Godshall has repaired my 13' 8/9 Custom twice (both breaks were tip section) and the repairs were done extremely well. They are great casting rods. I'm hoping that it won't break again since a couple weak spots have been eliminated via Steve's sleeving skills. You might try contacting him as a last ditch effort...beats the garbage can!
  12. kamishak steve Active Member

    Posts: 359
    Seattle, Wa
    Ratings: +67 / 0
    Sg,
    don't get me wrong, I loved the rod while I owned it (and it wasn't broken). The custom speys did have a reputation for breaking just above the top ferrule, however.
    In the past when the rod had broken, I had paid I think 80 bucks to have it repaired, which to me is a bit steep but very reasonable, and I would happily pay 80 or even 100 dollars to have it repaired again. To me 140 dollars for a simple tip replacement is outrageous, but it is up to the manufacturer I suppose. What burns me is that not only does he want to charge me the warranty but additionally force me to pay to upgrade or "screw you" kind of scenario. Any other rod manufacturer would offer an upgrade to a suitable model at no charge (other than shipping and handling and other usual warranty costs). If a rod breaks while casting, not due to any abuse, that should be covered under the manfacturer's defect clause, anyway.
    The point is that the manufacturer is trying to pawn off his responsibility to the customer on a non-existent distributor to remove himself from having to repair the rod. Nobuo was the owner and rod designer when my rod was designed, built and distributed, and he still is today. For a stick of graphite that cost around 500 dollars, industry standard dictates that he would at least offer the upgrade at the cost of the repair of the original rod.
    At this point the 500 dollar rod that I bought that was sold with a warranty when I purchased it is now totally worthless, and I don't have the cash to replace it. I'll never get that 500 dollars or that rod back, but at the very least I want to make sure that every one of you knows that the manufacturer does not value his warranty obligations or his customers, and that no one I know buys a CND rod. I don't care how nice his rods cast, any one that regards their customers like that doesn't deserve my business or yours.
  13. kamishak steve Active Member

    Posts: 359
    Seattle, Wa
    Ratings: +67 / 0
    Klickrolf,

    That's the same place my rod broke, 2 times, exact same spot, both while casting, no fly contact... NOT A COINCIDENCE.

    Do you have contact info for Steve Godshall?
  14. KerryS Ignored Member

    Posts: 6,713
    Sedro Woolley, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +1,754 / 0
    I got a CND rod someplace in the garage. Don't use it much so I am not sure what it is or where it is.
  15. Klickrolf Active Member

    Posts: 566
    Klickitat, Washington
    Ratings: +140 / 0
    You have a PM...or whatever they are now.
  16. speyfisher Active Member

    Posts: 1,057
    State of Jefferson U.S.A.
    Ratings: +136 / 3
    I was a big fan of CND from the beginning, owning a 1510-3 Expert, 15'-2" Solstice, and a 13' BS. In fact, I liked the Black Spey, which was a custom build, so much I ordered a blank (one of the last three remaining) and had Steve Godshall build me an exact copy. Knowing full well that I may never be able to get replacement blank sections at any price.

    I have to agree that CND relations, at least here in North America, have gone down the tubes since Snake River Outfitters dropped them. It's too bad. I've been told the trickle down effect from the earthquake/tsunami has really hit Japan hard. Not offering excuses, just that's the was it is. And, like Salmo_g, there was a time when I too entertained the idea of becoming a CND rep. Not the sole distributor for the whole of NA, but maybe the west coast. Even then, that's a lot of ground for one person to cover. Especially when you don't have a full line of rods to offer. If CND is to recover and maintain a presence in NA, I think they will need to develop a different marketing strategy, not to mention customer service.
  17. danimal Inglorious Twohander

    Posts: 72
    michiana,SW lk mich
    Ratings: +10 / 0
    TRUE. However sum U.S. companies have rods made overseas---as long as its a U.S. company I would consider purchasing a rod from them..
    Same w/reels. Unless we are talking british made treasures of old;)
  18. golfman65 Guest

    Posts: 0
    Ratings: +5 / 0
    Ok, let me play devils advocate for a second here..

    First off, these "lifetime warranties" IMHO mean your paying 900 bucks for a rod (i.e. sage, loomis etc.) valued less but with said warranty..

    Second, you fished the rod for 7 years, it broke, they don't have a distributor here now, don't make the rod but offered you a new rod for $312, I believe was the final cost?

    That to me again, MHO...is not a bad deal...Half off on a new rod to replace something you fished hard for 7 years isn't that horrible in my book...Especially when you look at, say waders and such...

    If I had a rod I liked as much as you seemed to like yours and fished it that long...broke it and was offered an upgraded one for half off..I would tell that company..."Thank you very much" and jump on it..but maybe that's just me...
  19. John Hicks Owner and operator of Sea Run Pursuits

    Posts: 2,130
    Olympia
    Ratings: +180 / 1
    I agree with Golf.

    on another note. I'm headed to Japan in September....any orders? LOL
  20. James Mello Inventor of the "closed eye conjecture"

    Posts: 2,787
    Tacoma
    Ratings: +88 / 0
    Not true, Sage has an upgrade price unless you stick with original model. Of course if the old one is not in stock, they will roll a new one for the $50 S/H cost, but depending on production that could take weeks.