Double barrel 12 ga advice requested

Discussion in 'Cast & Blast' started by loganmike, Aug 14, 2013.

  1. loganmike Member

    Posts: 107
    Buying 4 licenses from now on!
    Ratings: +2 / 0
    Hi gang,
    Already have a SA 20 and am looking at O/U 12 ga to round out what I want right now for upland bird hunting. I am budget minded but don't want a gun that will not work correctly.

    I looked at the stoeger condor supreme and liked the price but not all the reviews. Big surprise right?

    Anyway, do those w vast more knowledge than me have advice? I've been looking at used but know so little about gun quality w a used gun it is hard for me to decipher what is good and a POS.

    Anyway, if you can help I'd be much obliged!

    Cheers,
    Me
  2. Blake Harmon Active Member

    Posts: 1,037
    Spokane, Washington
    Ratings: +147 / 0
    price range?
  3. loganmike Member

    Posts: 107
    Buying 4 licenses from now on!
    Ratings: +2 / 0
    Sorry,
    Ideally less than 700!! But the less the better. Finish is not that important to me. Mechanically sound is!

    Me
  4. Kcahill Active Member

    Posts: 894
    Renton, WA
    Ratings: +262 / 2
    I have a CZ mallard that was right around that price (a couple years ago), its not the prettiest gun in the world but it has decent wood and I have not had a problem with it mechanically.
  5. steelydan Newb seeking wisdom

    Posts: 375
    Sammamish WA
    Ratings: +28 / 0
    I would buy a used Miroku, Win 101, Charles Daly, SKB, or beater Browning if finish is not important.
    Any would be better than a Turkish low-end gun.
  6. Roper Idiot Savant

    Posts: 4,313
    Glenraven Ranch
    Ratings: +792 / 1
    If price is an issue but finish isn't why struggle to find a O/U that fits? Why not just get a reliable, versatile pump gun. Lots of used ones around, either a fixed modified or multi-choke version. Wingmasters and BPS's are all over the place. One hucks 'em sideways, one downward. One has a trigger safety the other is where it belongs, on the top of the receiver. I've killed a lot of birds with a pump...
  7. zen leecher aka bill w born to work, forced to fish

    Posts: 3,239
    Moses Lake, WA
    Ratings: +1,030 / 1
    Must be the opinion of a person who's never owned a Huglu. CZ's and the DeHaan guns are made by Huglu. My DeHaan Huglu was so tight when I got it, it needed to be shot a bit to have it wear in.
  8. Jim Ficklin Genuine Montana Fossil

    Posts: 2,399
    Columbia Basin
    Ratings: +686 / 0
    I have several CZ's . . . great guns for the money. I've had NO issues.
  9. Alex MacDonald Dr. of Doomology

    Posts: 3,336
    Haus Alpenrosa, Lederhosenland
    Ratings: +895 / 0
    You aren't correct here unfortunately, especially when you're talking about Huglu. I have two Stoegers, one a 12bore Condor Supreme O/U that I shot skeet competitively for a few years, and it's every bit the gun that the others you mention are-and I've shot all of them. I also have a Stoeger Uplander Supreme in 20bore, which is also a very nice gun-nothing low-end about either of them in reliability or function. Finish is another matter. My big complaint about the 12, especially for upland, is that it's heavy. When I'm out for grouse or pheasant over pointers, I'll take my Belgian hammergun in 28bore, but for flushed pheasants, chukars, and the like, I have my choice of Franchi, Dale Tate custom, Browning 525, LC Smith Ideal grade, or my personal fav, a little Mossberg silver reserve in .410

    I had Briley chokes in my 12 for competition, and have never had an issue with either Stoeger. Can't say that for the little Mossberg though. Had to send it back when the second barrel failed to activate.
  10. Vladimir Steblina Retired Forester...now fishing instead of working

    Posts: 732
    Wenatchee, WA
    Ratings: +239 / 0
    Good grief Roper.....I was going to give Logan a ration for getting one of those new fangled O/U guns and you recommend a PUMP!!! Oh well, at least you got the safety thing right. Trigger safeties need to be banned.

    Stay away Baikals.....they can build AK-47's, but their shotguns are best avoided.

    IF it is not a side by side.....is it a "real" shotgun?
    Alex MacDonald likes this.
  11. loganmike Member

    Posts: 107
    Buying 4 licenses from now on!
    Ratings: +2 / 0
    Hi guys,
    Good thoughts.

    Roper: I want a double barrel instead of a pump for the ability to quickly free two shots and simply a more traditional gun.

    Vlad: I am definitely not object to sxs.

    Does anyone have thought on the old Stevens 311's that are plentiful on the used market?

    Me
  12. Alex MacDonald Dr. of Doomology

    Posts: 3,336
    Haus Alpenrosa, Lederhosenland
    Ratings: +895 / 0
    Mike, you want to have the headspace checked on these old Stevens guns; many have loosened up over the years, and the action needs to be tightened. You also need to make sure the chokes are modified and improved cyl since there are MANY old guns that are choked tighter. It may not be the best choice for your chosen application.

    Now on to my "pet peeve" of the 3-shot guns: first shot, and a miss; second shot, and the bird (talking about ducks specifically here) has lit his afterburners and cranked up the altitude to "MAX". Think about it: in a single barrel, probably with the same shot size as the first, you're only going to have your load expand that much further, leaving some good-sized holes in your pattern. Remember, you can't change the choke in this situation, so the pattern's just going to expand, not carry any further. Even with upland birds, on a miss, the afterburners are on "FULL", and a third shot is just throwing good shot after bad. At best, it's a "hail Mary". With a double gun however, I have the ability to put in two differing chokes, which is why almost all of them come with, at the very least, improved and modified in the tubes. Say I'm after grouse: I'll load 7 and a half's in the open choke, and a dose of 6`s in the tighter tube. On my hammergun, it's a cylinder choke in the right barrel and extra-full in the left, so the 7.5's go in both tubes. A double gives you greater flexibility, and if you're shooting Hevi Shot, you won't just throw $3 on the fire to burn up, in a wasted third shot, either.
  13. loganmike Member

    Posts: 107
    Buying 4 licenses from now on!
    Ratings: +2 / 0
    Alex,
    Thanks a ton and those are my thoughts too. I have a gunsmith here in Lewiston that can add screw in chokes to each barrel for 35 bucks.

    Anyway, the decisions:)

    We should get out after birds this year and share a tailgate cigar. My favorite post hunting past time!!!
  14. steelydan Newb seeking wisdom

    Posts: 375
    Sammamish WA
    Ratings: +28 / 0
    OK....I will admit lack of ownership of a Turkish gun.
    DeHaan, I believe, gets a little massage once it hits our shores.
    I did want to love CZs, as I have a few of their rimfires and think they're awesome, but the fit and finish of the CZ didn't match what I see coming from the Miroku factory.
    I will agree that fit to the shooter is the most important factor for hitting what you're aiming at.
  15. Upton O Blind hog fisherman

    Posts: 2,167
    out of state now
    Ratings: +218 / 0
    There is just something classical about bird hunting with a double barrel gun. The advantage is having two different chokes as was stated above and the option of using two different loads, too. Miroku and CZ are lower cost options with good reputations but the important thing is to get a gun that has a good fit for you. I urge you to be patient and only buy the gun that feels like you want it to feel when you mount it.
  16. Roper Idiot Savant

    Posts: 4,313
    Glenraven Ranch
    Ratings: +792 / 1
    Yes, there is something timeless about a double gun. I own several. But I also own as many pump guns. When you're filthy rich like me :rolleyes: you can have whatever you want. In the field or marsh I rarely take a second shot at a bird I've missed. If I couldn't hit it the first time, what makes me think I'll hit it the next time? I do take that second shot when one is hitting the tall grass and another presents it self as grouse often do. So I agree with the collective wisdom here and in addition have my own points. If one can afford the gun of their dreams, get it. If you want to hunt but have a limited stash, get a working gun and forget the bling. I've known a few old goats that drop birds very well with single barrels mounted on what looks like pallet wood...:)
  17. zen leecher aka bill w born to work, forced to fish

    Posts: 3,239
    Moses Lake, WA
    Ratings: +1,030 / 1
    I have an AyA Matador in 12 gauge that needs a new home. Spanish made around 1957 and choked Modified and Full.
  18. steelydan Newb seeking wisdom

    Posts: 375
    Sammamish WA
    Ratings: +28 / 0
    Be that as it may, life's too short to hunt with an ugly gun.:D
    Alex MacDonald and Kcahill like this.
  19. Kcahill Active Member

    Posts: 894
    Renton, WA
    Ratings: +262 / 2
    Whats it weigh?
  20. zen leecher aka bill w born to work, forced to fish

    Posts: 3,239
    Moses Lake, WA
    Ratings: +1,030 / 1
    probably 7.5 lbs as it's a full sized shotgun.