Discussion in 'Stillwater' started by GAT, Dec 15, 2012.
I never turn down info ;-)~ p.m. sent!
Well I'll be damned. All these years and I didn't know my scanner will scan as a PDF image. Guess you learn something new every day. If anyone is interested in receiving a copy of the article, send me your e-mail address via a personal message (conversation).
bakerite, you're my guinea pig. Let me know if it works.
I was able to convert and successfully send the article as PDF files so if anyone else is interested, PM me your e-mail address.
GAT's article on East Lake is the most comprehensive I've ever seen on the lake and the photography is beautiful. If you fish East or plan to, it's highly recommended reading.
Nevermind... a made a post on a different thread and it showed up here. Obviously, there's something supernatural afoot... I hate it when that happens.
And thanks, LC...
Yesterday we went out on a foothill lake that is planted by the resort which has their own hatchery. I decided to tie on the Teeny Nymph after this discussion and lo and behold I broke the skunk on it!
This was on Lake Amador, a 400 acre lake which, according to the resort, has received 29,000 pounds of Donaldson trout (very hard fighting, "reel burning" hybrids) this year. Two of us worked six hours to get four like this--all 17" -19" with very little fight and we did better than most anyone else including the hardware/bait anglers. Water temp was 58! We bonked three of them for the smoker and don't feel bad about it either;-) A little disappointing but winter fishing should include low expectations around here.
Maybe no one catches much with a Teeny Nymph because we never use them!
I tried them and never caught a fish on them and fish them every which way you can
It's not the fly, Lue. You just have the worst case of bad luck I've ever seen
I don't know what was first, a Pheasant Tail or Teeny Nymph.
Maybe the Teeny Nymph just needs a gold bead head... beats me.
My luck will change as soon as I get a copy of that book of yours Tim. Everyday is a learning experience just some days I learn less.
Dang it if I don't have even more lakes to explore now. So many lakes, so little time. What a problem to have
Dude you have it soooo easy! I fish tidal creeks, estuarine backwaters, the salt, the beach, lakes, upland creeks and rivers, and I also have to deal with the wildcard of surfing. I could always add another lake or two to my list, though.
Right now I'm just making plans, studying maps, routes, and Google Earth. One of these years I will buy an OR license.
Because of the facilities, East is a good destination lake. You can use it for home base and also fish the lakes along Century Drive, river fish The Crooked and even the Deschutes. If you're taking those who are not into fishing, there are many hiking trails around the lake area.
Paulina is the sister lake that is nearby and also fishable but it drops off very quickly into deep, deep water so it isn't as desirable for flyfishing.
Many years ago, a harsh winter caused black bear to move from the higher elevations down to the parks in search of food. And of course, idiot campers didn't secure their food so the black bear hung around the campgrounds. Regardless of the signs warning campers to lock up their food, the campers ended up feeding the bear.
A sow and her cubs were common visitors to the campgrounds and even the resort. Some dumbass camper freaked out one day and shot off a pistol in the campgrounds. This meant the ODF&W and feds had to do something about the bear. Which was dumb. You could easily scare off the sow and her cubs simply by yelling at her. Unlike grizzly bear, black bear are easily spooked and when scared, the cubs would climb a tree and Mom would lay down at the base of the tree. They weren't really dangerous in the least and if the campers would have locked up their food, there wouldn't have been a problem.
So, the ODF&W put up traps to trap mom and her cubs. We figured they'd move them off into the high country or at least to the other side of the State.
Nope. They captured the bear and killed the mom and the cubs. The officials claimed that the bear would come back if they relocated them. Bull Crap! They could have moved the mom and her cubs to a remote part of NE Oregon that was far from humans and there would be no way she could come back to East Lake. I guess bullets are cheap. It pissed me off. The poor starving bear where killed due to stupid humans.
After a few years, they removed the bear warning signs but if they put them back up, please make sure you lock away your food so we don't end up with more needlessly dead bear.
Right now I'm just making plans, studying maps, routes, and Google Earth. One of these years I will buy an OR license.[/quote]
I haven't started my studies yet but this is the time of year I hole-up for the winter and buy gear! not doing trips anywhere I can spend that money on a new rod or a reel.
I was just able to buy a sage SP 9' 6" 3 pc in 6 wt. I had never even seen a SP in this length for 6 wt. and just had to jump on it! so far this winter -
used custom 9' 6" 6 wt. b2x
the used SP
and a used nautilus reel.
Now it's time to start the studying! east should have bows this coming year in the 20" range and a little over to mix with the browns, it will be the following year (2014) when the bows should top the 5 pound mark with it's new special plants and regs. This coming year will show how effective the new management will be. It would be a great trip to combine the deshutes river arm of Wickiup with East lake early when the season opens or snow permits.
You two are convincing me to make some plans for a post-opener trip coinciding with ice out. I want to try Wickiup and I'd love to have a repeat of my East partial ice out trip of several years ago.
Is Oregon 100% triploids now? We are here. The DFG theory is that they cannot mix with wild species and they grow larger faster. The downside is there cannot be natural reproduction so virtually all waters without wild stock will become put and take exclusively which doesn't sit well with us.
Our DFG does not seem very interested in C&R or protecting many waters. I think that is reflective of license sales. Most fishermen are catch and kill. An example is Crowley Lake in the southeastern Sierra, which will have about 8,000 boats on opening weekend where it's a 5 fish limit, any taking style. When the trophy season starts August 1 and the limit becomes 2 fish 18" + with artificials only, the lake empties out and leaves it for our group and it's the best fishing of the year.
My local lake is a regulator lake for Folsom Lake, and they stopped planting trout about 5 years ago because of concerns of infecting downriver steelhead. The lake holds two state trout records--the largest being 28 lbs, a rainbow. This spring we were prospecting the upper part of the lake and saw several trout about 15" working the surface. I was excited and ran down to DFG and reported the natural spawn, and they kind of yawned. I suggested some protection as this is a suburban lake in a populated area, and they showed no interest.
The bear situation--understandable you'd be upset. I don't know what DFG would do down here. I remember once we were camping on the coast and some wild pigs came in the campground. We called DFG and they came out and shot them as they're dangerous. Their feet are razor sharp and can carve up an innocent hiker. The wildlife agencies will shoot an aggressive animal for safety purposes, and probably consider relocation costs and resources as well.
Odfw made a statement a couple years ago that they were moving more towards trophy trout in the future. as far as triploid and natives I think the only problem they have is the cranebow brood stock spawning with the wild cranebows in the upper Deschutes river. otherwise they have started stocking the crane brood stock in other lakes like lava and a few others I don't remember all the names but if you have no rivers for trout to spawn in it really doesn't matter does it? . two years ago they changed the regs at east to no browns over 16" I think is the length - to start managing for trophy browns at east. now they have brought in blackwater rainbows and another minnow eating aggressive strain from cali for east and have done the same at diamond. I think they brought in klamath lake bows at diamond, not sure but know they brought in an aggressive strain of minnow eaters to help with chubs at diamond also. plans are in place to poison Davis because by Oregon law it has to be managed for "TROUT" and people are getting pretty bent in central Oregon about the battle between bass and trout.
With all the lakes being poisoned with bass I don't see how any dfw could argue with trout spawning no matter where they came from IS this NOT A GOOD THING. We had a bad turn in the mid 80's when bass were spread like a virus, now with our new invasive species card you have to pay for if you own a boat or bring a boat in the state (and check points for boats) I feel it has brought attention to people about what is native and what is "not" since trout are native to the state they can bring in a species of rainbows from cali or cananda. browns are not native but still a trout and many people that fish mostly browns are upset at the plantings at east thinking the bows will hurt the brown populations but the browns have not kept the chub numbers down and they have been netting the chubs in spawning season with a little impact but the long term solution would be trout large enough and plentiful enough to feed on them to keep the numbers down. we will see how that all pans out!
As far as westslope cutts we have a few areas that they still remain, the question would be is it ok to take a brood stock of westslopes and plant them in areas that used to have them and let them try and take hold. wild fish purist as far as I know fight this tooth and nail but then just string up and go bass fishing because the trout fishing sucks!!! hands get tied! while water body after water body gets taken over by invasive species.
Crane did start planting trips so not to have an impact on the natives spawning, but they needed big help when the restoration started with the brood stock planting of larger smolt so the large mouth wouldn't eat them. right now many trout fisheries are being re-planed and regulations changed in central Oregon for larger trophy trout! we already had some great fisheries and it should only get better. It took a lot more money to take brood stock cranebows and spawn them and then hold "and feed" them longer to larger size 8 to 10 inches and plant them in the fall when the lake closed down to fishing so they would live through the winter and be able to grow to larger sizes. this took commitment and money two things that are hard to get from any dfw. this started almost 10 years ago, it shows me that yes - they are ready for a change!
New regulations in the last 2 or 3 years.
crane = next year 5 fish only 1 over 16" only one native. I should look this one up to make sure! but notice the 16" and under instead of 20" with the 20" and under to many people up grading to the 18 to 20" releasing bait caught fish. and the next year those 17 to 20" fish will be 5 and 6 pounders which will help in eating sticklebacks and help to try and keep a balance between the largemouth bass populations.
Wickiup = I guess they had to please the bass fisherman so they started regulations for management of bass at Wickiup. I have read many articles about when bass do take hold it is better to manage them for numbers then just have no limits. I still pull my hair out over this but need more information. I've never read where managing for bass actually helped a trout fishery - anyone? If your state had a lake with 25 pound browns and bows over ten pounds and some of the biggest kokes in the state would you want to manage for a bass fishery also?
East lake = no adipose finned rainbows may be kept. I guess what they did was not clip the new strains of rainbows and all must be released. also at least 2 years ago no browns over 16" to be kept.
Those are the only three I can think of that were
voted on and passed! this is off the top of my head so I need to check the changes and if I'm wrong will correct.
And yes Loc the slaughter fisherman that count success with the dead body count! all you have to do is fish over in eastern Oregon to see the slaughter! I fished this last spring over there and then in the fall and it was two different worlds. fish eastern Oregon early in the season. almost all the res. are just for irrigation and are drawn more then halfway down by fall, add that with slaughter fishing and well you probably get my point. but in the spring these res. are fish factories and the good water years we have had lately has made for some darn good fishing over east "IN THE SPRING"
Most of our plants in central and even eastern oregon are from oak springs hatchery in central oregon. as far as I know they are not trips! the only place they use trips in where they have a native strain that actually spawns, then they off-set with trips to help the trout population fight off invasive's like bass. The oak springs fish are very nice rainbows and grow fast with a good food supply.
That is a good run down on several lakes. Allow me to reciprocate with ours, for the entire state.
Rainbows: Triploids. All of them. And they are really small when planted. To their credit, DFG is stressed about the 8-10" plants and is working to improve this program.
Browns: All brown trout planting has been suspended for the foreseeable future.
Paulina lake is also under the new 5 year enhancement program for special rainbow plants and no adipose finned fish to be kept, and chub removal. they also state that they will be planting other rainbows for keep fishing. I tried pulling up the planting plans and which species of rainbows but couldn't find it. they do have the new regs out in pdf on the odfw website with maps for each area. these lakes are in the central zone. and most everything I posted was right but check regs before going. both Paulina and east lakes started a 5 year program in 2010 starting with netting of the chubs, I don't know when they planted the two other species of rainbows for catch and release but many reports of rainbows in the 18 inch range were posted this last season - could be a good up-coming year for these lakes!
Also on odfw site they state there were many concerns for larger rainbows in Crane prairie so the rule change passed. to manage for trophy rainbows! Wickiup gets a lot of attention for it's browns but also has rainbows to 10 pounds, just don't tell anybody Also like crane prairie it has stickleback minnows---- hint!
We're branching out with the thread but that's okay.
I've had a running battle with the ODF&W for a long time in regards to regulations and fishery management. I'm sure they have a dart board with my photo on it at headquarters.
I won't bother to post all the different regulation battles I've done with those guys but suffice it to say, my stance has always been to push for regulations to protect wild and native trout and they've fought me each time.
The latest failure of the ODF&W regulations was for Crane. They pulled a fast one (as usual) at the last minute.
The majority of high elevation lakes in Oregon, like East, were originally planted because no fish were in the lakes. As Crane is a reservoir that resulted when they dammed the upper Deschutes, the lake held native "cranebow" that lived in the river before it was dammed. I know the gentleman who did extensive research to convince the ODF&W to change the regulations to C&R for ALL non planted rainbow in Crane. He's been working with the ODF&W bio for years on the regulation change. The resort owner of Crane got wind of the regulation proposal and tossed a fit.
He lead the charge to stop the regulation change. He claimed his business would suffer if C&R was required for the wild trout. (I ran into this attitude before in regards to another fishery but that's a different story.)
Regardless, the ODF&W made the proposal for C&R of the wild cranebow and I figured they finally did something right. Someone pointed out the proposal so a campaign was launched to support it. I know a lot of folks in the flyfishing world and they know a lot of folks. I called out the troops. The support went viral and e-mails of support were sent.
Then, at the last minute before the commission voted on the regulation change, the ODF&W modified their proposal to allow the kill of one wild trout. What the hell??? I wouldn't have supported that proposal! Why does anyone need to keep one wild trout? There's a ton of planters in the lake for the taking. The idea of allowing the kill of one wild trout was insane and a nightmare for law enforcement.
So, the ODF&W stabbed all of us in the back who supported the original proposal and we ended up supporting a proposal that we wouldn't have supported if we knew they were going to change it at the last minute.
We supported the regulation change to prohibit the kill of ANY wild trout. This allowing the kill of one wild trout per person came out of blue and I certainly didn't know they'd pull something so stupid.
Anyway, that's how the regulation change for Crane really came down. While it may have looked as if thousands of anglers supported their proposal, we really didn't. We did not support the kill of any wild cranebow. We certainly didn't support the kill of one wild fish per person... what a BS regulation!
Guess I'm still at war with those guys.
(sorry for the rant but I had to vent on that one)