East Lake

Discussion in 'Stillwater' started by GAT, Dec 15, 2012.

  1. LCnSac

    LCnSac John or "LC"

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    Why would you apologize for a well documented fight, Gene? Surely you know why the change, or at least the most probable reason. As one involved in local politics more than a little at times, I'm quite sure you could trace back some relationships between the local Representatives and stakeholders, including funding agencies. Politics are always a compromise, as you well know.
     
  2. bakerite

    bakerite Active Member

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    I'm with you on this Gene! I wrote the ODFW about a couple of the little rivers over here that are open to bait with a five fish limit where that have potential to grow nice fish.....In Montana they would be highly regulated with no bait and you would catch lots of fish over 12 inches. They are there but in the hardest to get to places, while the bait guys take a limit every time they go out as soon as they are legal, not to mention the ones they kill while high-grading. If they made just one of the reservoirs over here into a selective fishery like the ones in Eastern Washington it would be a NW destination for lots of folks once the word got out. As Mark says they are already on a par with lakes like Lenice in the spring before the annual slaughter. They even have one, but haven't stocked it for five years because they haven't figured out how to deal with the landowner.
     
  3. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

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    I have a hard time accepting politics controlling wildlife management but it does. Sometimes I come off as a bit hostile toward the ODF&W because of that fact.

    A good friend and fishing buddy is a fish biologist of high stature. He worked at the ODF&W while waiting for a biologist position to open up. He told me exactly how the department operates and how much politics has to do agency. Eventually he took a job as the fishery biologist for the Confederated Tribes of the Siletz. His unique approach to fishery management has placed him in more than one feature story in the TV series, Oregon Field Guide. There are no politics involved with his job. He's allowed to do the best for the fish, not some damned resort owner.

    I guess if I didn't have inside info on how the ODF&W operates, I wouldn't fight them so much but because I do know how they operate and why, I'm always at odds with those guys.

    It was a major burn for me and those I convinced to back their Crane proposal. I now feel like an idiot for contacting all those I did and urge them to write e-mails or letters supporting the original proposal.

    What kind of stupid regulation allows you to kill one wild and native trout? What good does that really do? You're still allowed to kill a unique and rare trout.

    So the meat hunters go out and kill one wild trout each and take it to shore. Then they go out and catch and kill four more. How on earth can law enforcement keep that from happening?
    Obviously, it is more logical that the anglers have NO wild trout in possession.

    If they are truly attempting to turn East into a trophy rainbow trout fishery, good for them, but I'm suspicious.

    Davis Lake is supposed to be managed as a trophy trout flyfishing only fishery yet there is a slot limit. From talking with fish biologists, a slot limit can not build a trophy trout fishery because the trout within the limit range are cut off from growing any larger. If the tact worked, privately owned trophy trout fisheries would include a slot limit but they don't.

    Originally, there was NO slot limit at Davis. You could keep the daily limit of trout as you pleased.
    Years ago, I proposed, at the urging of one of the regulation commissioners, that Davis would be strictly a C&R fishery for trout. The trout were reproducing on their own so most of the fish were wild and planting was at a minimum. And because it is flyfishing only with no resort on the lake, it shouldn't have been a problem. It was. Because there was push back to my proposal, the ODF&W suggested the slot limit and that passed. Politics.

    So today, regardless of the fact that the illegally planted LMB have wiped out the steelhead size rainbow and there are very few trout remaining, you can still kill one of the rainbow if it is within the slot limit. Does that sound like a good management plan for a flyfishing only lake that's been over-ran by illegally planted bass? Absolute stupidity.

    (and you guys thought I was a happy go lucky cartoonist :))
     
  4. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

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    bakerite, considering I grew up where you now live, I know that anyone even suggesting no bait or catch and release of trout would be shot.

    The thing is, we buy a STATE fishing license so everyone in Oregon who buys a fishing license should have a say in the manner any fishery in Oregon is managed.
     
  5. LCnSac

    LCnSac John or "LC"

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    My memory is not that good anymore, but it seems to me that I remember reading several articles maybe 25 years ago that during ODFW meetings regarding the bass in the Cascade lakes, that folks like Gene were thin in attendance but the bass clubs and allied groups were out in force. I do remember someone from ODFW quoted saying that there wasn't much public objection so they didn't take action to eradicate the bass. So, you go Gene and keep fighting and rallying. Get the clubs involved if you can, although down here its mostly a handful of individuals who show up and they aren't always the best advocates due to some emotional outbursts that don't always help.

    Over the past couple of decades, I've found the attitude about the bass in Craine in Central Oregon to be quite casual. I don't find it one bit casual, and it completely pisses me off, especially as due to the winters that water is a long ways from a prime bass fishery. I think a "biggun" there is five pounds, and five pounds is NOT a trophy bass in quality bass waters. I don't know about the lakes around Coos Bay, but I'd guess those actually have some potential for large bass.

    Here, I've found engaging our local state legislature officials can help, but you have to find the ones who have some interest in the sport fishery. Most do not, and if they are in a district where salmon are important to the economy, don't' waste your time.

    The first thing I do before approaching anyone is find out via the net where they get their money. We're not Montana, and don't depend on sport fishing for a good part of our state economy although a handful of districts do. Those are often the best reps to approach, but some of the so called "environmental wackos" can be useful then too if they have some clout on the hill. I like to work the power curve and once you find it, you can get more done than you think.
     
  6. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

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    LC, your are absolutely correct. The B.A.S.S. are a powerful group and we don't really have much in the way to fight them. I have to wonder where Trout Unlimited is in all this but they don't seem to care about the illegally planted bass.

    The problem is, most anglers concerned about wild trout are fly anglers and our numbers are minor compared to the spin folks. The spin guys could care less about bass in a flyfishing only lake.

    Here's how powerful the bass clubs are. The LMB in Crane were illegally planted. The ODF&W made no effort to remove the bass, instead, they now allow bass tournaments at Crane!!!

    So think about it. Some a-hole dumps bass into a trophy trout fishery and the ODF&W rewards them by allowing bass tournaments at a trophy trout lake. What message does that send to Johnny Bass Seed? It wasn't long after the bass tournaments started at Crane that the illegally planted LMB showed up in Davis.

    The absolute only way I can thumb my nose at the bass guys is the fact that Davis is still flyfishing only and the bass are some of the largest in the West. If the ODF&W attempts to drop the flyfishing only restriction so the bass guys take the lake, some of us will show up on the ODF&W headquarters with torches and pitchforks. They can take that to the bank. We are not going to reward the illegally planting of bass in trout lakes... even if the ODF&W is.
     
  7. LCnSac

    LCnSac John or "LC"

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    Keep in mind that public meetings are mostly eyewash for the agency. The most effective way to advance an agenda is to determine the composition of the decision making body and politic them individually. Not many people will do this in a relatively minor commission and they will, for the most part, be glad to meet with you. If they are elected officials, campaign support never hurts.
     
  8. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

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    LC, again correct. The public meetings mean absolutely nothing. The only meeting that means anything is the final regulation meeting of the commission. And yes, you can contact them individually. I did so when a number of flyfishing clubs in Oregon pushed to make a section of The Willamette C&R for wild trout. I ended up in the living room of one of the commissioners and he had no idea there was a difference between a wild trout and a planted one. He thought a trout was a trout and if you fished for them, you must want to keep them.

    We used the campaign support strategy for the Willamette River regulation change. We kept in contact via the Internet. That was new to the ODF&W so we caught them off guard. The zone bio was against the C&R regulation but we won the battle due to the numbers we had who contacted the commission members. We were told that we could never override the position of the ODF&W bio because the commission always went with the opinion of the zone bio. Welllll... we changed all that with our numbers and dealing directly with the commissioners.

    Unfortunately, now everyone is aware of how to us the Internet so the catch and kill folks can send just as many e-mails to the commission as we can... and they have in regards to recent proposals. like the one for Crane.

    Gee... we've kind'a got off track from the original East Lake thread.
     
  9. Drifter

    Drifter Active Member

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    Good stuff! And I'm with you GAT where the hell is trout unlimited and the native fish society? must not be enough money in it for them.
     
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  10. LCnSac

    LCnSac John or "LC"

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    If you look at the TU projects, you'll find the great majority to be salmon and steelhead, not trout. Why is that? Probably because that's where the money is, just like it is there for state fish and wildlife departments. The Bureau of Reclamation owns most of the large dams and the steelhead and salmon hatcheries which they built as mitigation for cutting off spawning grounds. The state agencies are contractors to the Bureau and run those hatcheries and receive substantial funding to do so. For trout, it's state funded without much if any help from the Fed.

    TU and Sierra Club and the rest of the tribe are lobby organizations first. They focus on candidates and projects where lobby funds are forthcoming.

    Start here for more discoveries, if interested.
    http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=D000045232
     
  11. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

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    The Native Fish Society is also focused on salmon/steelhead. Oregon Trout (are they even still around?) were another group that seemed to care more about salmon/steelhead than trout... regardless of their name.

    I guess if we want to save wild and native trout, we're on our own.
     
  12. LCnSac

    LCnSac John or "LC"

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    I think activating the clubs would help. This discussion gave me an idea. I think I'll propose a governmental affairs seat on our board. I chair one lobby group now, might as well make it two.

    And Gene, total thumbs up for taking your time to sit with the commissioners. Keep it up man, aren't many like you, and thanks.
     

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