Eliminate steelhead fishing?

Discussion in 'Steelhead' started by BFK, Nov 9, 2010.

  1. Rob Allen

    Rob Allen Active Member

    Actually we know a LOT about how hatchery fish affect wild fish.. That issue has been studied studied and restudied time and time again more studying of the issue will not change the results..
    hatchery fish are VERY bad for wild fish in many cases in the Columbia river system I believe based on the science that they are the single largest limiting factor to a wild fish rebound.

    As for the wildcat steelhead club.. I have listened to them at public meetings and will say without any question that in terms of what is best for the fish and fishing they are the enemy. They are in my estimation a very selfish group of anglers with only their dinner table in mind...
  2. stilly stalker

    stilly stalker Tuna sniffer

    Im just saying that in terms of cost to the state per fish for Kendall creek, its pretty low because they pay fo the feed. Im not commenting on them as a quality contributor to conservation, which in my opinion they are not.
  3. Chris Johnson

    Chris Johnson Member: Native Fish Society

    You can rest asured that Kendall creek hatchery won't close because of the spring chinook broodstock program in the n. fork and now the south fork as well. The value of these is dubious at best and probably not the best use of funds. Hatchery biologists like hatchery solutions.
  4. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

    They have a damn nice boat launch and dock........................well worth the 40 buck membership fees.
  5. Charles Sullivan

    Charles Sullivan dreaming through the come down

    That building isn't free. Labor isn't free. Electricity isn't free. They aren't cheap. They also aren't worth it even if they were free. They also are a failure. When you have to close a large portion of the river to fishing to get enugh fish back for egg take, it ain't worth it. It's a hatchery for the good of the hatchery. That's all it is.
    Guess what.... The Cascade isn't worth it. Hatchery fish on the Stilly aren't worth it. None of them are worth it.

    I know it would eliminate my local fishing if it ended but I can't figure out on any level how dumping tons of hatchery fish into the sound can help the wild fish. I can come up with many logical scenarios where it wmay hurt them.

    Do you want to reduce tribal netting? The majority of it is due to hatcheries.

    Go Sox,
  6. stilly stalker

    stilly stalker Tuna sniffer

    Runs would increase drastically for hatchery fish on the Nooksack if the gillnetting was reigned in a bit. The hatchery run just happens to overlap chum netting season, (which is all wild now since Kendall no longer has a chum program)and I KNOW that the vasssst majority are caught in these nets and not recorded. I have seen the numbers that the Nooksack and Lummi nations claim, and when they claim zero, or 50 fish catught you can instantly call BS. Anyone who has floated the Sak and lifted a net knows that to be complete bullshit. Les not forget also that the Nooksack has genetically distinct run of riverine Sockey that is IHN virus free and the tribes refuse to admit it and manage for them because then they would not be able to beach net for the Frasier river sockeye. As it stands now, there are maybe only 100 adults returning to spawn in the N. fork, just a few dozen in the S. fork. As RESPONSIBLE cmanagers, shouldn't they be accountable for the long term health of that run?
  7. James Mello

    James Mello Inventor of the "closed eye conjecture"

    In the case of the Puyallup, Cascade and Nooksack, the reduction in smolt releases is directly attributable to the reduced escapement. The state no longer allows out of basin stocks to be planted. So if a river system can't sustain a reasonable level of production, then the will be closed eventually. Case in point the Puyallup. 2008 smolt releases are at 239,100. The last year I can find returns to the hatchery 2006-2007 the had 57 fish return to the racks. There is obviously a problem when a quarter of a million fish are released and you get 57 back. Waste of money, waste of time.
  8. Charles Sullivan

    Charles Sullivan dreaming through the come down

    Let's look at the Nookie a moment.

    The tribes can justify netting winter steelhead because their are hatchery fish. How is that helping the wild fish?

    They can justify anhilliating the Coho in the salt and in the river due to hatchery fish. In fact it's managed for just that. How's that helping the fish?

    Listen, the Nook is my favorite place to be; at least not in the company of a lady. I won't get to fish it either without the hatchery.

    The fish, however, will be better off without the hatchery. The one recovery tool left is to eliminate the hatcheries. Let's face it, it's the one legal thing that has never been tried.

    Go Sox,
  9. Be Jofus G

    Be Jofus G Banned or Parked

    Do you guys honelstly believe the tribes will stop netting if the hatcheries are closed? :rofl:
  10. Salmo_g

    Salmo_g Active Member


    The tribes can only fish commercially if there are agreed to numbers of surplus production, i.e., harvestable fish. They do take ceremonial or even subsistence (depending how hard ass they want to be) fish from wild runs returning at levels below escapement goals. But there wouldn't be any significant commercial fishery on depressed wild runs.

  11. Be Jofus G

    Be Jofus G Banned or Parked

    Yeah, ok. We'll see how long that lasts.
  12. Charles Sullivan

    Charles Sullivan dreaming through the come down

    Here is another way to look at it.

    Continued hatchery plants guarentee continued netting of steelhead.

    GO Sox,
  13. Jonathan Tachell

    Jonathan Tachell Active Member

    Unfortunately I don't think discontinuing hatchery plants will guarentee the end of netting for steelhead either.
  14. Charles Sullivan

    Charles Sullivan dreaming through the come down

    It would be no guarentee. The tribes have their own bio.'s who will come up with their own run forecasts and minimum escapement numbers. They have been accused of counting non-existant redds on the OP. This is all true. It doesn't change the fact that at present, in PS, hatcheries are the reason for the season's so to speak. That is both our season and the netters season.

    On the OP it's different. Their wild fish aren't listed. They have "harvestable" fish. In PS, we live in a different reality and when you work through the issues that our fish have hatcheries are a major portion of the problem.

    Yes, we won't have a season without hatcheries. With the "hatchery reform" we still wouldn't have a season on winter fish. Honestly, who fishes for hatchery fish in the PS? We all look forward to the end of the season on the Sky, Snoho, etc and for the wild C&R on the Skagit. Those December and January days are usually fishless and on the odd occasion you catch a fish it's still 50% that it's a nate. The rivers will be closed by Jan.31 soon, even with hatcheries. Is it really worth it to keep them around?

    Logic says no. Emotion may say something different.

    Go Sox,
  15. Jonathan Tachell

    Jonathan Tachell Active Member

    Well it looks like we might find out some of the answers to these questions fairly soon. Hopefully whats best for the fish is kept in mind along with the fact that people paying for fishing licenses should get something for their money. Whether that is increased enforcement or other recreational fishing enhancement in other arreas. I guess it just irritates me that the state is raising license prices while giving us less. Such as cutting enforcement, although I guess it should not really come as a suprise.
  16. Charles Sullivan

    Charles Sullivan dreaming through the come down

    I'm happy to pay more for less if less means better management. It costs around a dollar per day to fish as it is. I can't say that's too much. I pay a whole lot more to fish in Canada and I am not paying to fish for hatchery fish.

    Go Sox,
  17. stilly stalker

    stilly stalker Tuna sniffer

    Its really a shame the Nooksack has bee so abused, it truly is a gorgeous river, home to all 5 species of salmon in addition to cutties, bulls and steelhead. Shit, the S. fork has a run of about 100 or so SUMMER run steelhead that are some of the most gorgeous fish I have ever seen, and fight like freaking banshees when hooked. Twice as hard as most Stilly fish of equal size.
    The gravel bars make it amazing to fish with the fly, and the scenery is really top notch. I really love the Nooksack, and if closing the hatchery means protecting whats left, then maybe it needs to be done. Im still pretty certain that the extended chum netting will take their toll on wild fish, especially the early run, but there are fish spawning all the way into early june in there, so I know that a big push of wild fish comes in later. My best fishing on the Nooksack is always the last week its open And there are some MONSTER winter fish in that system
  18. Chris Johnson

    Chris Johnson Member: Native Fish Society

    Yes the nook is a great little river, not classic fly water but it's there if you search. Untill recently wdfw had very little idea what the numbers on winter steelhead were in the river, but with the listing now they have to take stock. One thing to remember is that there are many factors involved in the decline of these fish, and while tribal netting has a part in it, the tribes will certanly have to be a part of the solution. The Lummi tribe runs skookum creek and they use kendall creek for part of their spring chinook broodstock program so those hatcheries will stay open.
  19. Chris Johnson

    Chris Johnson Member: Native Fish Society

    NSEA is doing a work party @ Rothunbuler rd on the so fork tomorrow, 9 am if any one is interested!
  20. mike kinney

    mike kinney Member

    Raising Fees
    This is a serious threat in a lot of different directions. There are a lot of jobs, businesses, recreational opportunities, and even small towns at stake here as well as the fish. Access that was paid for by punch card money is being neglected and sold off; recreational taxes are being used for everything except what it was originally intended to do. Stimulus money was given to big commercial interests but none to enhance or maintain the fish that they exploit. If people think that increasing fees without direction and accountability is going to fix anything they are crazy. We are in very big danger of losing all of our fishing and then have less enforcement at the same time. Closing all of the hatcheries and then turning our heads the other way while we have no backup plan to bring the rivers or the fish back is going to do what? What some people don't get is that wild fish management was just a license for the state to do less and steal more of our recreation tax dollars for unrelated causes. This is just the beginning this will eventually involve all waters and states that have anadromous and resident fish. Remember Utah earlier this year? We need to band together immediately to save the little bit that we still have. MK

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