Fishing and firearms

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Kent Lufkin, Oct 1, 2003.

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  1. I only fly fish for catch and release so, thus far anyway, I have not had need of a firearm...

    I grew up in the firearms industry. And I have been a victim of firearms violence. So I see the whole gun ownership from several differant angles. Firstly; gun laws don't work as well as they would have you think they do. Secondly; a gun is only a tool. It's your state of mind and skill as a shooter that are most important. A proper state of mind will keep you out of most avoidable situations. Especially if you are armed. Good shooting skills will prevent a bad situation from becoming worse.

    I wish the world were not so dangerous a place, but the truth is that it is. Carrying a firearm in society is a terrible responsibility and I am afraid that most people who do carry are not prepared for the full consequences of that. Caliber won't matter if you arent traing with the thing on a regular basis. Most combat shoot-outs are within 20 feet of distance and are over very, very quickly. The risk to innocent bystanders is extroadinary. That takes a kind of cool that you can only achieve through diligent and consistent effort. And you need a good coach to get it right.

    All this flippant talk of violence and killing: If you ever do have to shoot someone, and you do kill them- it will change your life forever. You might not be able to handle those changes very well. Think hard about that. I think that a firearm should be your absolute last resort of action, not a margin for error.

    Of course I do support people's right to defend themselves and each other from unwarranted attacks of any kind. And sometimes a person just has to do what they have to do. I just feel that a great deal of humble consideration must be given to the cost.
     
  2. I definately agree with you little stone.

    I think owning\carrying a gun should be treated similar to driving a car. You are putting your life and others at risk of you do not know what you are doing. Like cars, drinking and guns don't mix. Gun owners should have written and hands on tests and be held to a higher level of accountability for ensuring their guns are stored and handled safely.

    I once had to put down our family dog (with a gun) who was in her final days and suffering a lot of pain. Even though my wife and I both agreed it was the right thing to do, and I would do it again if I had to, it changed me in a way I can't explain. Taking a human life would surely have a much greater impact - even if the scum bag deserved it. If you are packing, and think you may ever need to pull it - you better KNOW for sure you can pull the trigger.

    That said, I'm probably going to sell my hand gun (but keep my shot gun locked in my bedroom) since I have 3 young boys. Once they get old enough, I'll probably take some classes with them. Teaching kids proper respect and safe handling of guns at a young age is very important. It's the kid who picks up his friend's dad's gun and points it at his buddy and pulls the trigger because he THOUGHT it was empty or maybe the gun just goes off and he wasn't paying attention to where it was pointing... Teach your kids - just because you don't own guns, doesn't mean they will never handle one....
     
  3. Just one question for you Little Stone...Why do you always have to be so damn reasonable???;-) ;-) ;-)
     
  4. Who are these cranks we're scared of?

    I'm not concerned about cougars or black bears when fishing. I'm not a big fan of them, but I'm confident enough with the scarcity of fatal bear/cougar attacks that I don't think a gun is worth it's weight. (I also wonder how good of a shot one could get off on an attacking cougar who are notorious for their from-behind, ambush-style assults). Needing a gun to ward off a beaver makes me laugh out loud.

    The cranks out there are another story. I don't exactly know who this dangerous fraction of society actually is (locals yokels, druggies, landowners?, hobos?), but I'll agree with the majority here that there are some crazy people out there who'd I'd rather not run into.

    What I would really, really want is a few documented cases where a hiker/fisherman/family went out on Saturday afternoon and got killed/maimed after a run-in with one of these crazies. Can anyone tell me such a story? Better yet, point me to a news article about such an encounter. I've been reading the newspaper for a long time and don't remember ever hearing about any guy who came accross a weirdo and didn't come home. A lot of people here have sited this danger as a reason to carry a firearm, so where does this fear come from?

    I'm really not for or against taking guns fishing, I just want to know, where's the beef?
     
  5. RiverFishing

    That IS a really frustrating quality abour LS, isn't it?
    ;-)
    But you know, he's the only one who got the REAL question...whether you should bring a handgun to subdue your fish. I know some of the carp that Keith (wrench) caught were so darn ugly I wished I'd had a gun to shoot them and thereby spare us their collective misery. Poor bastards.
    I personally think the guys who hunt carp with bow and arrows are onto something...

    Mike :rofl :rofl :rofl
     
  6. RiverFishing

    You know, all this reminded me of an experience I had years ago...

    I was floating a section of Walker Creek in Giles County, Virginia with a friend who is also a lawyer. This was a beautiful little river that flowed through some very remote and pristine country, and my first ime on this particular water.

    We'd been in the water for a couple of hours and were approaching a bend in the river when David said, "You need to put down your rod while we go through this section of river." "Why?" I asked. David replied, "Do you see that little white farmhouse about four hundred yards ahead? The old farmer who lives there comes out and hollers at people who fish through that section of river in front of his place."
    I continued, "Is that legal? Even if he owns the land on both sides of the river, I thought the navigable waterways laws allowed us to fish or whatever on the water as long as we stay IN the water."
    David responded, "You may be right...but I don't make it a habit to argue the finer points of the law with a man holding a gun."
    I put down my rod. Never did the see the old mountaineer.

    Mike :rolleyes
     
  7. Rob,

    I'm glad that you have never needed a gun while fishing...yet! And I hope that you never do. But to think that if you just be "nice" to everyone and bow out when uncomfortable will keep you out of trouble is just naive.

    The "reality" is that the boogy man does exist. There are people out there would kill you for the watch on your wrist or just to see you bleed. Just being a nice guy does not exempt you from that! There have been many murdered people that were as nice, or nicer, than you.

    If you choose to not carry a gun that is your choice. But to call someone who does paranoid and not wanting to be around them is bigoted. Instead of fearing something that you know little about, you may want to get to know someone who owns firearms. You might find out that most of them are nice people too! Heck, if you live nearby, I'll show you the one I just bought.:)
     
  8. Yep, I'm gonna be packing my Smith&Wesson 44 caliber "Brookie Buster"
     
  9. >I know some of the carp that Keith (wrench)
    >caught were so darn ugly I wished I'd had a gun to
    >shoot them and thereby spare us their collective
    >misery. Poor bastards.
    >I personally think the guys who hunt carp with bow and
    >arrows are onto something...
    >
    >Mike :rofl :rofl :rofl

    When I spent a summer working on a research team in Wisconsin we hauled in several boat loads of carp. After many days of being up to our ankles in carp slime, a coworker and I wished we could keep some to test various loads out of our guns. What better way to learn how our hunting or self defense loads performed than to shoot 20lb carp? Sadly, we had to release them all, except for those we donated to the local sportsman's club for their smoke house.
     
  10. Perfect!!! :thumb :thumb

    In response to the cougar/bear question below. You can almost guarantee that a cougar attack will be from behind and you wont even know it until its over. Bears, possibly a chance of heading it off but youre chances are extremely slim. I just finished reading a few books on cougar and bear attacks....SCARY!!!!

    And as LS said, you better be smart about how/what/when you pull a handgun. Practice, education, & trainging.

    Just a fun fact for everyone: A bear has been recorded at reaching 34 miles per hour in under two seconds. How fast can you pull your handgun?? ;)

    ~Patrick ><>
     
  11. Yes, I carry. I have various firearms that I carry. When fishing in Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, or Alaska, I carry a 44 mag. Everywhere else, I carry a 9mm or a 45 cal.

    I do not like to think of a world where I need to carry weapons; however, it is reality.

    Thank you to those of you who do carry and are responsible. To those of you who do not carry, I support you. You have that right. I am thankful that I have the right to protect myself and mine. This was an interesting thread.

    Ray
     
  12. After some serious consideration, I've decided not to carry. At least for the time being. But I'm leaving my options open. I've had a couple wildlife encounters but nothing too serious, and I was once mugged at gunpoint in the city. I'm glad some of my fellow fishers are in fact packing, I just may need ya someday :)
     
  13. While not fishing related, I did have a very ugly incident with a gun. Between marriages, I had invited this pretty young lady over for some spaghetti and whatever.
    I look out the window to see her car in front of the house, slam on her brakes, and dash for my door. She is shaking like a leaf when I open it and tells me she is being followed by two guys who are going to kill or rape her.
    I told her to stand in the kitchen out of the way and I got my Colt Lawman, 2", Mark V revolver in .357 magnum. I stuck in the back of my belt.
    Here they come, dash up my walk and I confront them but I'm standing inside my house. The one proceeds to flatten himself in back of one of the double doors and I can see him rather plainly through the colored glass. The other gives me a ration about how my girlfriend had cut them off and that she was going to pay for it. I could have provoked the argument with a lot of macho but I quietly said that I wanted them off of my property. They left with some,"you better tell her this and you better tell her that." The incident came to a close.
    During our little conversation, I kept my hand behind my back and on the gun with my finger on the trigger I think he may have noticed this.
    If he entered the house, I would have killed him and his partner if he came in as well. What with her testimony and the proximity of the asshole to me, I don't think there would even have been an investigation.
    On a more pleasant note, after the spaghetti, one of the wildest nights of my life occurred. Just a bit of thanks I guess.
    Bob.
    P.S. Never pull a knife on a man who might be possibly armed. It would be a perfect and legal excuse to kill you.
     
  14. Damn Bob, I like what you wrote. My grandfather was born a poor ass kid in the old country. Only the rich had guns and hunted. He made a point of owning guns, hunting and owning 3 summer homes and a log cabin hunting camp. He loved America and what it did for him. I'll never forget sitting around the hunting camp gas lights burning, wood cook stove warming and grandpa talking about the 2nd amendment. Memories...
    And to all you *#%#@ that think we should turn our guns in...well... I won't say it because this seems to be a rather gentlemanly web site.
    Sisu, its what America needs:rofl
     
  15. Well, it's great to read these replies. As a gun owner, hunter, defender of the second amendment, and avowed local yokel, it does my heart proud to know there's so many of you running around armed and dangerous. I guess I'd better start packing, because when you open up on me I want something better to return fire with than my four weight.

    What fear drives this? Don't you understand you've made the choice to use the weapon when you load it and put it on, not later when you're threatened? If you're in a wild place with vicious animals, I understand it, but the Sky, the Yak, heck no place in Washington is that far from civilization. Try something else.

    Think before you arm yourselves. Instead, I consider as essential safety equipment on all trips: Beer. Throw full beercans at black bears and cougars, they go away. Give a beer to a local yokel, he's now not quite so threatening. Offer one to a property owner, and enjoy access to unfished water. Use empty beercans as bailers to save a swamping boat. They're very versatile, and nobody goes to the hospital after getting hit by a beer.


    C'mon, this is the lower 48! I'm always armed with beer. :beer2
     
  16. Good point. Even those that 'pack' should not let that get in the way of common courtesy and common sense. Use your brain to get out of tough spots. I've encountered quite a few questionable characters, been close to a few fist fights, and threatened by wild dogs - but not one time did I use a weapon to get out of it. Just used my brain and\or controled my fear\temper. But in that 1 in 1000 encounter where my brain just won't do it, I like to know I have the option of packing if I so choose.

    But to address your question: "what fear drives this?"
    Well, ever watch the movie "Deliverance"?? Enough said :eek
     
  17. Squeel like a Pig! :eek or PROTECT yourself!:thumb
     
  18. Not to be a jerk, but one of the best uses for an empty (or full) beer can is to toss it in the air and blast holy hell out of it!
    Bob, the Man, I've really turned bad, haven't I? :rofl :rofl :rofl
     
  19. Well, I guess i'll throw in as well. I own a gun, and I take it with me occasionally when I go fish way in the sticks, for two reasons. My wife hates the idea that I own a gun, but I think that's because she grew up in suburbia and I grew up where you laid on the floor because of the drive by shootings. That's the first reason, there are some people out there that will put a bullet into you for no good reason. I love my wife and my two year old much more than I care about anyone who would put me in a position where I felt it necessary to draw a weapon. Secondly, i'm scared to death of bears. If any of you have ever seen what is left of a person after a bear has mauled, or god forbid eaten a person, you would carry some sort of weapon too. I know that we aren't in Grizz country, but I only weigh about 175 pounds and there is no way I would be able to fight off even a 200 pound bear. Yep, they're long odds but i'll hedge my bets.
     
  20. I do carry on occasion, Glock 26 (ballistic tupperware). I suppose views on this vary, depending on whether or not you are in a remote location...say the Hoh river an hour before sunrise waiting for your guide to return from dropping off a vehicle at the pickup location...or hiking to a "not so secluded" location a short hike from the highway! I thank god I've never had to reach for it, or even think about doing so, but I know that it's there if need be. I treat a firearm with respect, and I look at other fisherman as if they were carrying also. This is a very different world we live in these days, and I'm a strong believer in self preservation!!!
     
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