Fishing the bottom.

Discussion in 'Stillwater' started by Dustin Bise, Apr 7, 2008.

  1. Dustin Bise

    Dustin Bise Active Member

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    I thought this would make a good thread so...

    What are you're favorite techniques for fishing deep in the summers? Times when you need to drop to a shelf thats 50-60 feet deep? So far I have just used the sink rate of the line to guess or wait for it to hit bottom then start the retrieve. I think adding a high floating line in a 5-10 foot section could possibly provide good results for keeping the fly down low but suspended off the bottom. :beer2:
     
  2. Mike Wilson

    Mike Wilson Yakbowbw

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    Read an article about using a full sink line to drop to the bottom with a 2'-4' leader attatched. They said that they used a floating fly like a spun deer hair carey special. The line sinks to the bottom and then the fly floats above the bottom. When you drag your line along the bottom it kind of stirs up the bottom suspending the food in the water. The author felt it was kind of like ringing the dinner bell and there was your floating fly suspended in the dinner line. I haven't had the guts to try it yet, full sink lines are expensive. I would hate like hell to snag my line on the bottom and have to cut or snap the fly line in order to keep the rod and reel. I need to find a grassy bottom area to give this a try.

    Other than that I have used the count method, or a pair of hemostats attatched to a chrono dropped to the bottom to set the corky. Pretty simple stuff, not very creative.
     
  3. Steve Birrer

    Steve Birrer Member

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    50-60' deep? Surely you are joking me. The only fly line that is going to go that deep is a seriously heavy depth charge like a 600 grain. No floating line is going to hold that kind of a sinking line.

    I can't for the life of me imagine fishing for trout that deep 25'. Ok. But 50 or 60 not a chance.
     
  4. ceviche

    ceviche Active Member

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    Fishing deep during the summer? Sorry for raising the red flag, but I don't do that anymore when it comes to lowland lakes. The water is too warm. The lack of dissolved oxygen in the top several feet of water puts too much stress on trout when you catch them. Unless you are fishing high-elevation lakes or plan on eating what you catch, it's just a bad idea.

    If for some reason you feel you absolutely have to fish during the summer, be willing to wait a very long time cradling the trout until it is strong enough to swim off on its own. I read an account of an angler holding a trout in a stream for over 15 minutes before it was able to swim off on its own.

    Remember: If you aren't going to eat it, don't kill it.
     
  5. Dustin Bise

    Dustin Bise Active Member

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    Just haul em in real fast and slip the barbless out without removing them from the water? What if there is a cool spring on the bottom of the lake that the fish congregate on? Are the dissolved o2 levels in such a place any better?

    and yes... i do absolutely have to fish in the summer. I can see no other options.
     
  6. Kaari White

    Kaari White Active Member

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    Then fish for something else (bluegill and bass come to mind). When you've exhausted the fish, how are you going to revive them when the top 2-3' of water is 70+ degrees? That water contains too little oxygen to revive a trout and I'm betting your arms aren't long enough to reach the deeper, oxygen rich water.

    Please review the section entitled "Stillwater Ethics" in this well written article on lake fishing http://www.washingtonflyfishing.com...illwater_Fly_Fishing__Having_a_Game_Plan.html
     
  7. Ethan G.

    Ethan G. I do science.. on fish..

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    I go by the assumption that fish below 6-9 feet are not actively feeding and I either leave or target something else. Especially in Summer.
    -Ethan
     
  8. ceviche

    ceviche Active Member

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    iagree CWUGirl pretty much tidied up that issue. Do read the article. Many of us have transgressed in this manner before, so feel no shame and go forward with wisdom.

    Here's a piece of suggestion that you might find positive. If you enjoy stillwater fishing as much as I do, concentrate your fishing during the coldest months of the year. Throughout late autumn and into early spring, you should be able to find good trout populations in the shallows. Moreover, during the depths of winter, you will find the largest trout spread out through the shallows. If you have the stamina to handle the cold, you will find a lot of jumbo trout willing to take your fly. Almost all of my best trout have been caught in winter. Why work so hard?

    --Dave E.
     
  9. Gorgefly

    Gorgefly Member

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    My suggestion would be to go high or go north for trout in summer.
    Many of the high lakes are plenty cold enough and I also like to drive up a couple three hundred miles into B.C....oh, and yes...sinking lines...and yes, the trout will feed in 40-50 feet of water up there.
     
  10. Steven Green

    Steven Green Hood Canal Pirate

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    iagree

    fishing deeper than that is boooooooooooring.
     
  11. Keith Hixson

    Keith Hixson Active Member

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    With a fly line, even fast sinking, it will be virtually impossible to reach 50 - 60 feet depth. However, I have fished a few high lakes that are 30 - 50 feet down. We often fish as deep as we can get because that's where the bigger fish are.

    You could put a down-rigger on your fly line if you want to get seriously deep, I am half-way joking but if you feel the need to go really deep, a down rigger will work. But is that fly fishing?

    Keith
     
  12. Nolan

    Nolan New Member

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    Dustin I have fished a couple lakes that were that deep I use a type 6 and just slow retrieve with buggers or chrominoids. For me its more about the structure than the depth. Fish off ledges and shelfs but I haven't had much success at depths of 50+ feet.

    As for the trout that die during the summer months I wouldn't worry about it too much unless you want to. Trout are going to die even during spring, fall, and winter months from lack of food, mishandling, and other predators in lakes or rivers. I try fish for bass/panfish during the middle of the day and trout during the morning and evening. I do get trout during the middle of the day and just haul them in as fast as possible and don't touch them unless you have to.
     
  13. Daryle Holmstrom

    Daryle Holmstrom retiredfishak

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    I fish for Kokanee and Cutts in Lake Cavanaugh from 40 to 70 feet deep. I made up a line from a thread posted about a year ago here. Basically 30 feet of T-14 I got at AATF with 200 feet of amnesia backing. I marked it in 5 foot intervals. Short leader, one butt section 12", shock gum rio 6" another 12' butt then about 3' of 6 lb. flouro. The cutties really slam it (I usually let them go unless it's
    one of the bigger ones for the smoker. I'm dialing in on the Kokes for the table fare.

    Forgot to add, I only fish the lake in Spring and Fall

    Daryle
     
  14. ascender

    ascender New Member

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    Go north and fish the travelers and then find the bombers. More fun than fishing holes. Fishing lakes deep that are warm as hell on the surface means that your trout will likely never make it back down to there alive. That is poor form... then it won't even taste good.
     
  15. Kaari White

    Kaari White Active Member

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    Your argument is that trout are mortal and die by other causes, so who cares that C&R in the summer months is ineffective on many lowland/basin lakes? In my opinion, anglers should be concerned with the survivability of the fish they're releasing...or else C&R is a total joke. Actually, it's worse than that because it's wasteful- at least a bait fisherman eats his catch and is compelled to stop fishing by law when he reaches his limit (even if he C&R'd the fish).
     
  16. ceviche

    ceviche Active Member

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    :rofl: iagree

    iagree Once again, she nails the crux of it. If you plan on C&R'ing, the whole point is the survivability of the trout. If you're going to eat the fish, then, that's a whole other thing. However, as ascender pointed out, summer trout don't taste good. Soft meat and muddy tasting. So, then, what's the point of fishing deep when the trout are hiding there because the surface water is too warm and oxygen depleted? Maybe it's Nature's way of telling you to "Just say, 'Noooooo!'"?

    As far as Kokanee are concerned, people pretty much only fish them to eat. In that case, no sin there: "Go deep and eat!" And keep posting them tactics!

    --Dave E.
     
  17. Nolan

    Nolan New Member

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    CWUGirl it was late at night when I was typing I should have explained better. There was no argument just a statement that when we release fish anytime of the year that they are going to die from lack of food, mishandling, and other predators on any lake at any time of the year. I was offering a suggestion of what to fish for when to minimize the impact if he was fishing for trout. He didn't specify where or what he was fishing for. I think he already established that he was concerned by asking how to minimize his impact on the fish. I don't want to turn this into another C&R ethics thread. I am more interested in learning more about fly fishing that deep as I could apply that to some lakes I fish.
     
  18. chadk

    chadk Be the guide...

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    Like the kokanee, if the trout are staying deep in the cooler water, the meat will be fine (assuming the lake in question is deep and offers this cooler water - not all will...). Just don't stick them on a stringer to slowly die and bake in the warm surface water. Bleed and put directly on ice :thumb:
     
  19. Quan

    Quan Super Fat Cat Float Tuber

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    Nolan, I think either I'm misunderstanding your point or you are misinformed. Either way, I will try to lay out the problem here. What CWUgirl is pointing out is that the act of fishing deep in lowland lakes in the summer to catch & release trout will most likely end in a dead trout, therefore, nullifying your noble C&R efforts. Essentially, during hot summer months, you may as well have bonked the trout on the head and eaten it rather than just letting it die a slow, pointless death after you "release" it.

    The trout go deeper during the summer for a reason. The cooler, more oxygenated water is what sustains them during these months. When you pull a fish from the deep, you fight it on the surface, where the water is too warm and poorly oxygenated. By the time it gets to you, it is half dead and will not be able to recover and eventually die later that day, despite the fact you released it. What killed the fish? It wasn't predation. It wasn't lack of food. It was the fact that you pulled it from the deeps and exhausted and suffocated it to death. Think of it this way, it's like taking a human and wrestling him underwater until he drowns and then throwing him back on shore to "release" him.

    You are correct in saying that fish do die due to lack of food and natural predation year round, but catching and releasing them during summer months will just end up in that many more fish dying needlessly.

    Furthermore, CWUgirl is stating that if you are not fishing for C&R, fishing in lakes with catch limits is more noble since these rules are put in place to try to keep a balance. You will catch your limit, and then leave. This is in contrast to "nobly releasing" the 25 fish you caught on a hot summer day only to really end up killing them all.

    Anyway, I agree with you Nolan - to an extent. Fishing for warmwater species like bass is a good alternative to trout during the hot summer months. But switching to trout in the mornings and evenings doesn't make any difference. The thermocline layer stays a relatively steady temperature throughout seasons with very minute variations throughout the day. It doesn't get drastically cooler at night and then drastically warmer during the day. So switching to them in the cooler times of the day doesn't necessarily save them from the warm and poorly oxygenated water. I also agree with you that we should not turn this into a C&R ethics thread, but I just wanted to try to squash that part of the thread with this post. The other part of this whole argument is that Dustin never did say he was fishing for catch & release. Maybe he's looking for some dinner. =)

    On to what we're supposed to be talking about. If you are in high mountain or northern lakes, I would imagine a good way to get 50+ feet deep is to put away your fly gear and break out the lead weights and downriggers... =P Other than that, I've heard of people fishing for rockfish and halibut in the salt, and I believe they use a some type of sinking line.
     
  20. Dustin Bise

    Dustin Bise Active Member

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    i never said how i was fishing because i presented the thread completely from a technique standpoint. I'm glad everyone here has there own ethics regarding fish, but I did not state WHERE, WHAT, or WHEN i was fishing. To many assumptions have been made and i let people decided for them self what is moral about fishing. Any fisher, by nature of the sport, is acting in efforts against the fish. Proper conservation technique would be to fence off the lake.

    Thanks for all the great info though everyone. I now have some new weapons in my arsenal to go out and murder native lake fish by the hundreds when i "release" them. I couldn't do this before cause I didn't know how to get my worm tipped woolly bugger down to the fish... type 6 line here I come!
     

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