so, a gurdle bug it is...on the cedar? a nice guy from a shop in seattle told me about it on the phone. 2 weeks ago i was up at landsburg bridge and a guy and a gal showed me some of them and it was the first time i had seen them. simple enough. Thanks for all the help guys, I learned an aweful lot. i caught a 7 incher on a olive maribou muddler but my trip was cut short sat. night.