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Flourocarbon tippit

2K views 45 replies 18 participants last post by  BRsnow 
#1 ·
Flouro prices are all over the map but mostly on the high side. Everyone seems to have their favorite and most seem to be willing to pay whatever it takes to own said product. I see some Seaguar products going for as much as $18.95 for 25 yards! Ouch. I have used Rio, Orvis, Cabela's and a couple of others. About 3 years ago I started using Hook and Hackle's house brand and found that it's quality is indistinguishable from the other brands for my purposes of catching fish that are usually less than 3-4 pounds. It knots extremely well and doesn't seem to kink up as readily as some brands.

This is the identical product to what Feather-Craft sells at a higher price, in the same container with just a different name on it. I particularly like the soft plastic spools it comes in. I can keep them loose in a pocket instead of on a lanyard and not have to deal with all the loose ends that occur when 4 spools are snapped together. The soft plastic just flips open to expose the end of the tippit material and then snaps back into place to retain it when finished. But what I like most of all about it is that it comes in 50 yard spools instead of the usual 25 or 30. And it regularly goes on sale-this week at $9.95 for a 50 yard spool.

The one negative I find about it is that it's diameter is greater than what is stated on the package. I have been using a micrometer on my tippit material for decades and this is not unusual at all. Very few materials ever match what is stated on the spool. In the case of H&H flouro the spools for 4X and 5X say .007 and .006 respectively. They measure .008 and .007. It simply means the breaking strength is a little higher than advertised which probably is no big deal.

Short of buying a bulk spool of this stuff $9.95 for 50 yards is the best deal I've seen. And now with 3 years of experience with it I feel comfortable recommending it.

Ive
 
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#8 ·
Evan, just about all flouro is a rip off price wise. It is certainly an improvement over mono but often sells at 3X what mono sells for. I wouldn't go so far as to say it is 3 times better. Once a new product comes out called UnobtainiumX that is 25% stronger and 10% less visible in the water than flouro the price of flouro will take it's rightful place in the scheme of things. The spend more-catch more mentality will still be in place at that point and someone else will write in that they found a great deal online for UnobtaniumX-just $1.25 a yard!

I would call the H&H stuff supple, not stiff.

Ive
 
#11 ·
Thanks for the tip, Ive.

The "Hook & Hackle" branded fly lines are also a really good value at close to $30. They perform well, and are especially well known by the guys that like to use vintage fly gear like myself. Their double taper lines are a good, less expensive option to Cortland's old standby "Peach" lines that have been around for years.
Of course the other option would be to just say to hell with the budget and get a good old fashioned silk line... with fluoro tied on the end, of course!!
 
#13 ·
Jeez! I was just trying to be helpful and let people know that you can buy Flourocarbon without backing in the door and dropping your skivvies. Instead it seems as though the response has been by a ghetto of like minds that are all marching in lock step to the Seaguar drummer. I understand that you all like the product and why but the rest of us who catch a helluva lot of fish on "inferior products" are not the dumb shits you make us out to be. And as for losing "the fish of a lifetime" because your tippit broke-use a heavier tippit for christ's sake.

It's not the money that keeps me from buying it for sure. I have less debt than what many of you carry in your wallet. And more in the bank than some guys are going to make in the next 10 years. And I retired early. I can sure as hell afford Seaguar. But I didn't get here by being stupid with my money. And right now spending 60% more for a product that may be just 5% better doesn't fit my economic model.

Save and invest some of that money you piss away on frivolous gear. Retire early. Then go fish your ass off. It has worked for me for the past 13 years.

Ive
 
#14 ·
Uh... didn't think anyone was being snobish Ive. Just giving opinions. Next time I won't give any input, sorry.

By the way, I buy 100% flouro Seaguar @ $12.95 per 250 yrds. Not sure where you are thinking that's high end stuff.
 
#17 ·
The short answer, I don't know. My research (from a while back) suggested that if it didn't say 100%, it probably wasn't.

However that being said, when I first started using fluorocarbon in the early 90's, there wasn't a big demand for it like there is now. As the demand increased, more companies got on the bandwagon. As more companies made 100%, and it became more common, it was no longer really needed to put 100% on the label.

Okay, stay with me here...:confused:

Now enters the "era" of blended or coated fluorocarbon lines. What happened was, companies realized it was cheaper to make blended or coated lines (probably because there were only four places in the world that made 100%), but still put the word fluorocarbon on the box. They did this, because there was such a "craze" for the stuff, folks weren't paying attention, and got an inferior product (compared to 100% of course). As time went on (I think it was in the late 90's), people started noticing a difference, because 100% fluorocarbon started to come down in price. The price came down, just enough, for some to switch from blended to 100%. After that, the cat was out of the bag.

The reason I posted what I did last year, (and again just a moment ago) was because some are just getting to know the benefits of 100%, and don't know the difference/history behind it. They too could fall victim of clever marketing.

I'm a 'quality' guy, verses "high end" or "inexpensive", but sometimes you can actually get both, and sometimes it's just preference. For instance, I have three rods that are over $800 each with $50 reels on them. Yeah I get mocked, but the reel is light weight, sealed disc drag, bomb proof, and after 12 seasons, I've yet to have it fail me. I also have a $25 closeout rod - 7' 4wt, that I love! But I digress...

Seaguar meets both quality and inexpensive (for me). Again, $12.95 per 250 yrds. I did actually have a problem with Berkley 100% fluorocarbon back in '02, and not sure why. All my knots, and I do mean all my knots broke at some point when fishing for steelies, or landing bigger trout. Funny thing was, the box said "New and improved" "Stronger knots!" :mad: Well, the only time I've had my triple surgeons knot break, was that year. I threw the box away.

Wow, that was loooong ^ ! Hope it helped anyway....
 
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#19 ·
The first berkley fluoro was crap and like idiots we tested it on springers in the sandy.

Ive, I was really interested in your post and might think about switching - I retired early too but on a budget! Heck the fluoro haters haven't even posted yet----
 
#22 ·
I got mine at Cabelas, and Wal Mart had it as well (not sure anymore).

I should have made the disclaimer, that it has been two years since I've bought it. 250 yds.... goes a loooong way. :)
 
#24 ·
#25 ·
And by the way, Evan is spot on. Everyone knows you can't catch fish without using Seaguar. :D

Proline is also another one. 100% at I think around $17 or $18 per 250. I do have one or two of their spools I think...
 
#26 ·
Hey Evan,

I had the same problems with Seaguar at first (just at a much smaller scale).

Two things to note:

1. I changed all my knots. This made a huge difference. Only took me one trip out fishing to get into the habit of tying different ones, but what a time saver, and a performance issue. Triple Surgeons knot for all leaders, and overhand loop or nail knots for ends. Something about the stiffness of fluorocarbon that makes some knots not hold well, or as easy to tie.

2. The tinsel strength of fluorocarbon is way stronger (per thousands dia.), than that of mono. Meaning you can go down sometimes even two pound test sizes for each section. I know that "4 lb test is 4 lb test" but, mono stretches and fluoro does not. Over time, even with just a snag or two or decent size fish or two, that mono ain't 4 lb test anymore, especially at the knot. Again, very, very little to no stretch with fluoro. Because of that, I was able to tie smaller tippet, and easier knots. And because of the "camo" characteristics, able to go up a couple sizes on bigger flies.

The big thing (for me anyway), was changing my knots.

Of course, you probably already knew this, and I just wasted my time. Maybe it's good for someone else.... ;)
 
#28 ·
I've had good results with Seaguar premium, Rio Grand Max, and Orvis Mirage. About a year ago I read an article that indicated that, per most parameters, Maxima fluorocarbon is one of the best, and it costs a little less than others. I've just tied some summer steelhead leaders with .011" 10 pound test (rated:rolleyes:) tippets. It's not kinky, at any rate. We'll see.
 
#29 ·
The "Hook & Hackle" branded fly lines are also a really good value at close to $30. They perform well, and are especially well known by the guys that like to use vintage fly gear like myself. Their double taper lines are a good, less expensive option to Cortland's old standby "Peach" lines that have been around for years.
Greg, I had heard the same thing from some guys on Clark's a bunch of years ago. One guy even suggested that the H&H lines were actually made by Cortland and were simply 444 tapers but in olive instead of peach.

Lured by the prospect of buying a 444 at a $15 discount, I bought a couple of H&H DTs in 4 and 5 back in the mid-2000s and spooled 'em up to test with some of my go-to rods. I found them to be difficult to cast consistently. A little wind was almost a deal breaker. They felt light in hand and didn't load the rods I tried them on as well as the lines I was already using. Mind you I didn't rush to that conclusion but backed into it over the course of a couple of months, comparing the H&H lines with others in my closet or a variety of rods.

My experience with the H&H lines was the reason I ended up buying a line scale (which I don't think I've used twice since). It confirmed that the two I had were at the very low end of the range for their respective indicated weights. My H&H DT4 could just as easily have been a SA GPX DT3.

Maybe my H&H lines were an abberation. Maybe they were mismarked. Most certainly other people were more impressed with them than I was. While other people's mileage will probably vary, even at less than $30 each, they weren't worth it to me so I ended up selling them and moving on.

K
 
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