Fukushima Disaster Thoughts...

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Rob Zelk, Sep 7, 2013.

  1. Rob Zelk

    Rob Zelk I swing, therefore i am.

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    Hey all,

    I've been stewing over this and thought I'd be a good topic if it hasn't been already. Take a look at this site:

    http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013...ca-to-be-hit-hard-by-fukushima-radiation.html

    Hopefully someone with more knowledge about radiation will tell me everything will be okay but it seems that salmon and sea creatures from Alaska to Mexico may be and have already been affected. People joked about this two years ago, but it seems it could be a very real disaster.
     
  2. later_Peter

    later_Peter Active Member

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    there is already radiation being detected in Tuna. There was an article today about the operator of that plant begging for international help... but the good news: JAPAN GETS THE 2020 OLYMPICS & will spend close to $5 BILLION DOLLARS TO GET READY!!! (who cares that the Fukishima plant is leaking radiation into the world's water)
     
  3. Freestone

    Freestone Not to be confused with freestoneangler

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  4. Thomas Williams

    Thomas Williams Habitual Line Stepper

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    It's a huge coverup and on the international back burner. I'm already thinking we should stop eating pacific salmon. Something needs to be done. Why the world isn't pulling together to stop this is crazy!
     
  5. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

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    Maybe the bigger question is, were it true, "what they hell can we do about it?" It's not like the Exxon Valdez or BP Gulf oil spills, where a gazillion bales of hay or other oil soaking media can be used to clean-up most of the mess.
     
  6. Evan Burck

    Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

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    Bingo. The whole thing is massively overblown.

    As my friend, a scientist explained it: I can pee in a lake, and you can say that you then have an entire lake of contaminated water. But anyone with common sense knows that the dilution effect of that lake will make it not matter in the slightest.

    Same goes for this issue and the Pacific Ocean. The dilution effects are massive. The amount of Pacific fish you'd have to eat to get radiation levels beyond what you get from walking outside would be thousands of pounds or more.
     
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  7. cmann886

    cmann886 Active Member

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    I recommend that you watch Pandora@s Promise, a documentary about five prominent environmentalists who changed their minds to become advocates of nuclear energy, changed many more minds during its run in theaters across the country. You can catch the film on CNN on November 7. It starts slow but addresses many of the concerns that you have expressed on this thread.

    Another source of reliable information is

    http://www.nei.org/News-Media/News/News-Archives/No-Long-Term-Radiation-Health-Risks-From-Fukushima

    However some will always insist that an international cover up exists regardless of the numbers of independent organizations that reach the same conclusion. The fact is that most of us at best mistrust what we don't understand---fear of the unknown is as old as human kind.
     
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  8. jwg

    jwg Active Member

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    No coverup. I know scientists involved in monitoring Fukushima. there are so many countries involved and results are shared and compiled at scientific conferences. So coverup would be impossible, at least as regards radioactive isotopes in the environment around Fukushima. The media may not pick it up, but the data exist, the monitoring is on going, and the data are not secret.

    Jay
     
  9. jwg

    jwg Active Member

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    EDIT: i did not mean the link from freestone I meant this one:
    http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013...ca-to-be-hit-hard-by-fukushima-radiation.html


    This is a fascinating site. I enjoyed looking at it.
    However the selection of text to highlight with bold indicates a bias toward the sensational,while the meaning of other phrases is not explained, and could easily be misunderstood by the public.

    for example, when it says concentrations may be 10 times higher on the west pacific region compared to the east pacific (where the plume originated), it does not explain that concentrations after many months of dilution and movement will be ten times higher in the western pacific than the HIGHLY DILUTED concentration existing at the same time in the future in the east pacific.

    The way it is stated could instead be misinterpreted as meaning concentrations on the west coast will be 10 x higher than the original concentrations in the east pacific, which would be ridiculous. But is certainly sounds more dramatic that way!

    Jay

    check out some of the original references. more to come.
     
  10. jwg

    jwg Active Member

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    http://iprc.soest.hawaii.edu/news/marine_and_tsunami_debris/debris_news.php
    Direct water samples from the middle of the North Pacific 1½ years after the accident reveal a 0.000005% concentration of the original discharge.

    "
    • Some US news-blog postings have created a false alarm about increasing concentrations of radioactivity in the ocean from the Fukushima nuclear plant as the plume moves across the North Pacific. These blogs have mistakenly shown one of the IPRC marine debris models, which do NOT deal with radiation.
    • The blogs cite a publication that is based on a serious mistake, namely that radionuclides behave like drifting buoys and other objects floating on the ocean surface. Ocean currents do push debris that does not sink into places where the debris concentrates, namely, the famous oceanic garbage patches.
    • Radionuclides, however, dissolve in seawater like a lump of sugar and disperse. Furthermore, radionuclides decay with time. Therefore, the concentration of radioactivity in the water becomes less and less with time.
    • An increase in the concentration of the radionuclides away from their source is thus NOT possible. Direct water samples from the middle of the North Pacific 1½ years after the accident reveal a 0.000005% concentration of the original discharge. This concentration is far below any danger level.
    "
     
  11. Evan Burck

    Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

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    Imagine how many dams could come down if people supported nuclear energy research and we moved forward with it. Unfortunately, the general public is a long, long ways from coming around on that issue.
     
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  12. jwg

    jwg Active Member

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    http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013...ca-to-be-hit-hard-by-fukushima-radiation.html

    The third graphic in this, which is an animation, is for debris, i.e. solid objects drifting in the currents, not for dissolved radionuclides.

    In addition, the color scale is almost certainly logarithmic, which the public, including reporters, are unlikely to recognize or understand. (Logarithmic means each unit change represents a tenfold change, so a 3 unit decrease means 1000 x less)

    In looking at his graphic, its important to note the brief initial intense red color at the beginning, which is rapidly dispersed to other colors on the color scale.

    Jay
     
  13. jwg

    jwg Active Member

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    http://www.newscientist.com/article...tive-water-be-dumped-at-sea.html#.UiyjupV0ou8

    This article notes the ocean already contains vast amounts of radionuclides.

    Some are natural, like natural radioisotopes of potassium. (potassium 40)

    Others are man-made, and landed in the ocean from above ground nuclear weapons testing. These include the cesium and strontium radioisotopes.

    Fukushima is contributing negligible amounts to the total inventory of radionuclides already present in the ocean.

    Jay
     
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  14. jwg

    jwg Active Member

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    In summary, Fukushima was a bad event, the situation on the ground in Japan is very bad and will be very expensive to deal with locally, but it does not compare to Chernobyl at all, and it does not pose seawater risks to us on this side of the Pacific.

    There is no conspiracy as regards radiation in the environment.

    Secrecy by TEPCO in Japan, regarding the situation on the ground at the Fukushima site, may be true (just like any company around the world deals with bad news) but does not mean there are unknown risks regarding the western Pacific seawater.

    Jay
     
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  15. Mingo

    Mingo the Menehune stole my beer

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    I watch several Japanese-language news shows and the public outrage over the nuclear plant management team's attempts to minimize the perceived damage is a daily topic. The top brass at the plant have been pushed aside as incompetent hide-the-truth-and-duck-for-cover douchebags. The Govt has installed it's own A team and now have a plan for a mitigation wall to contain seepage in a pretty clever manner. But "too little too late" does not begin to tell the whole story over there. They are certainly concerned with world seawater effects, but they are still having massive near-shore ocean and land-based issues from the fallout AND the tsunami. For example, Japanese wild boars have moved into abandoned farms and fields in areas hit by the tsunami, and they feed openly in daylight hours now and stand their ground when journalists or government officials stop to gawk at them. This behavior has not been seen before. They are shy creatures that have been hunted for centuries, but without any humans around, they are taking over the 'hood.

    Their meat has something like 600 times the amount of acceptable radiation, so pork chops are not an option.
     
  16. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

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    Amazingly, the Europeans have... somewhat counter to what one might think. There is no free lunch for modern living... we have to pick our poison and quit whining.
     
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  17. Rob Zelk

    Rob Zelk I swing, therefore i am.

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    Here is an interview for those who want to take the time to listen to it. It features two experts who have spent most of their lives dealing with the subject. It really tells you what exactly is going on on-scene, and what options they are considering to deal with it. They also talk of the effects on pacific fish, its quite interesting.

    http://fairewinds.org/media/radio/concerned-fukushima
     
  18. gabe0430

    gabe0430 Banned or Parked

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  19. wadin' boot

    wadin' boot Donny, you're out of your element...

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    Classic medical history pertinent to discussion about fishing and Japanese industrial accidents and mercury poisoning: If you wonder why we need to pay attention to mercury levels in fish here is why

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minamata_disease

    Radiation decays over time, mercury bioconcentrates
     
  20. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

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    This how misinformation gets started. The US did maybe a hundred or so tests in the Pacific. You can count them up here;http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Usa/Tests/