FYI: Boat-ban suggested for Klickitat, Hoh, other rivers

Discussion in 'Steelhead' started by Dan Nelson, Jul 13, 2012.

  1. Sean Beauchamp Teepee Creatchin'

    Posts: 2,069
    Shoreline, WA, U.S.
    Ratings: +370 / 1
    The issue that concerns me is spawning success after fish have been c and r once, twice, three or ten times. WE DON'T KNOW. I have a hard time believing it doesn't have some impact. This is what needs to be addressed. While the specifics of the boat regs particularly on the duc and calawah are a bit much in my opinion it is something that could help this issue. This isn't to benefit any user group it is to protect the fish. I have a lot of opinions after what I've seen personally on the coast but I'll leave it at that....
  2. Chris Bellows aka. topwater

    Posts: 1,514
    The Salt
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    i've been thinking about this a bit and i think i'm bothered by the fact that it is small stretches above some of the worst boating and fishing abuses (lower river bait fishing). i think picking an entire river system would be better.

    i think the hoh would be the best choice. tons of boat pressure, lots of wading access, and runs barely or not making escapement. they also currently have data on the high levels of c&r on hoh river fish. i think a couple seasons ago they calculated that something like 70% of the escapement number was caught and released.
    Bob Triggs likes this.
  3. Sean Beauchamp Teepee Creatchin'

    Posts: 2,069
    Shoreline, WA, U.S.
    Ratings: +370 / 1
    Which is worse, c and r mortality on a tide fresh, uncaught steelhead Lip hooked on bait or one c and r'd 3 times while staged upriver waiting for enough water to run up its creek? After it dodged sea lions, jonas' gill nets and the fleet of guides... I mean sport fishermen? I think they deserve better
    JesseCFowl and TallFlyGuy like this.
  4. gt Active Member

    Posts: 2,616
    sequim, WA
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    the escapement on the Hoh is not met simply because of lower river netting 6 out of every 7 days. rec angling has not much to do with this disaster.
    TribalDragon911 likes this.
  5. Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

    Posts: 6,287
    Duvall, wa
    Ratings: +1,493 / 2
    Jim Kerr, JD Love, and a few others
    Bob Triggs likes this.
  6. underachiever !

    Posts: 512
    suburban hell
    Ratings: +312 / 0
    But if we limit other's fishing we'll have more of the river to ourselves and if we can't make a real change to benefit the run, we can at least make a change that will benefit us and pretend it's all about the fish!
    Bob Triggs and Jeff Sawyer like this.
  7. Derek Young 2011 Orvis Endorsed Fly Fishing Guide Of The Year

    Posts: 2,610
    Snoqualmie, WA
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    Just need $60 to party...

    Bob Triggs likes this.
  8. Sean Beauchamp Teepee Creatchin'

    Posts: 2,069
    Shoreline, WA, U.S.
    Ratings: +370 / 1

    Not sure what you mean since the vast majority of fly anglers on the coast nymph from the boat on the move and the fly angling guide community depends on it. This isn't a joust at gear anglers it will effect everyone even swingers. Ie More displaced pressure onto the gravel bars. I nymph from the boat every day but I'm more than willing to give up that privilege if it means more steelhead on redds
  9. Sean Beauchamp Teepee Creatchin'

    Posts: 2,069
    Shoreline, WA, U.S.
    Ratings: +370 / 1
    I also Would wager that nymphing outta the boat hooks just as many steelhead in a season as side drifted roe. Or more.
    Bob Triggs likes this.
  10. Ed Call Mumbling Moderator

    Posts: 17,271
    Kitsap Peninsula
    Ratings: +1,236 / 9
    As regulations change, so too will tactics to catch the fish. I'll follow the rules changes as they happen, but I hope the rule changes make sense for the strength of the runs and are both enforceable and enforced. I recall when part of a small local river was made "Fly Fishing Only" with intent to reduce snagging of hatchery fish that were mixed in with two native species. The same rec anglers of all types were right out there, cheap fly rod combos in hand, with weighted flies and learning new fish snagging techniques with a new type of pole in hand. The more regs change, the more things stay the same, the angling community finds a way to successfully locate and get into fish.

    Will this one make a difference? I think it could, but I'm just a talentless fly angler that puts very little pressure on any fish species.
  11. Chris Bellows aka. topwater

    Posts: 1,514
    The Salt
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    the point was that the vast majority besides JD have not lived out there as long as many of the gear fishing guides... so basing guide licenses on long-term residency would reduce the number of fly fishing guides to one or maybe two. the idea of basing guiding on long-term residency might sound good but would remove the majority of the guides so popular on this board.
  12. Sean Beauchamp Teepee Creatchin'

    Posts: 2,069
    Shoreline, WA, U.S.
    Ratings: +370 / 1
    I agree but what happens to them once they pass the nets? Isn't that our concern at that point?
  13. Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

    Posts: 6,287
    Duvall, wa
    Ratings: +1,493 / 2
    Wish more people had this attitude whether it be with nymphing, side drifting roe, rowin plugs, or bobber doggin.
  14. Charles Sullivan dreaming through the come down

    Posts: 2,200
    bellingham wa
    Ratings: +451 / 0
    I don't think the road to success is paved with changes to the sport anglers rulebook. It's easy. There is a mechanism for these changes, but I don't think the results will be equal to the internal sportfishing carnage these changes will create.

    No one likes being restricted. If there were people who wanted to outlaw wade fishing due to redd damage and not boat fishing, I'd be pissed. A little empathy goes a long way here. The issue at hand is the early returning steelhead. They have been largely impacted by the net fishery for hatchery fish. C&R mortality does not help but even eliminating it may not make much of a difference either. I commend WSC for noticing the need to bolster these populations, but I can't support the proposal.

    In truth, lawyers guns and money are the items required to deal with the issues the early OP returners face. The presence of hatchery fish, foregone opportunity, the lack of reasonable (and sometimes approved) harvest management plans by the co-managers and wild steelhead kill reg.'s hurt these fish most.

    Success will likely depend on an arrow like approach to these issues as I see it. The present approach athough laudable for it's intent is a shotgun styled apprach where large game is being fired at with birdshot. The management paradigm WDFW finds itself in due to tribal rights and lack of power over the co-managers needs to change. Hence, lawyers, guns and money.

    P.S. I added the guns part only because of the song. I sincerely hope no guns are used in any political disagreement over fish. Lawyers and money are certainly needed though.

    Go Sox,
    cds
  15. underachiever !

    Posts: 512
    suburban hell
    Ratings: +312 / 0
    If it was only about helping the fish this wouldn't matter.
  16. shawn k Member

    Posts: 697
    buckets worldwide
    Ratings: +19 / 0
    While i feel no love for the tribal netters. Your statement is Bs. The Hoh tribe nets two days a week and they have an enforcement guy that drives the river in a jet boat and pulls any nets that are fishing beyond the agreed to fishing times or fishing illegally. If you were to mention the queets or Chehalis than you would be spot on.
  17. Chris Johnson Member: Native Fish Society

    Posts: 1,721
    Bellingham Wa.
    Ratings: +277 / 1
    We seem to be looking at this as a monolithic structure( maybe it's just me), when it is not. It is a set of proposals that WDFW may choose to adopt all, part of or not at all. As far as causing hate and discontent in the fishing community, sorry but any restriction you implement is going to piss someone off. It's not a panacea, but we can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good at this point in the game. The fact that the Sol Duc will be managed as a wild Steelhead management zone gives credence to the proposal in my eyes, for that river at least. I also like the special regs on trout in all P.S. rivers.
    Chris Bellows likes this.
  18. bennysbuddy the sultan of swing

    Posts: 1,902
    m-ville
    Ratings: +458 / 0
    I think we should ban boats on all rivers including the yak, then we'll see who the fishers are, This is another attempt by the Elitist to mess up the gear guys so they can have the river to themselfs. If you want to save the steelhead ban fishing for them all togather and let the runs rebuild.
  19. nutsack angler newb

    Posts: 417
    Dedmonds, WA
    Ratings: +36 / 0
    Sure, but your idea of effectiveness is probably different from mine which is probably different from the gear guide that has 2 paying clients who have never seen a steelhead let alone an underwater rock the size of a VW. My point was that closing those two sections isn't going to change any overall impact on the fish. The impacts are downstream where you can use bait, barbs, and kill fish, which is where all the people are...
  20. Rob Allen Active Member

    Posts: 786
    Vancouver WA
    Ratings: +274 / 0
    no one with a mind towards conservation should be targeting wild steelhead on any river where they are below escapement... I have given up fishing on most of my favorite rivers for this very reason.. I now target almost exclusively hatchery salmon and steelhead.. now I do not think that CnR for steelhead is a problem at all even with so many people's ignorance of how to fight and handle larger game fish... still I think we should be doing everything we can...

    I am of the opinion that the single best thing for our wild fish populations we can do as individual sport anglers is to kill as many hatchery fish as we legally can... hatchery fish are great nutrients for your garden or great Christmas presents if you don't like to eat fish...
    Chris Johnson likes this.