Discussion in 'Steelhead' started by Dan Nelson, Jul 13, 2012.
just curious, with or without snyder creek?
BOOM!!! Good post!
All fish counted spawning naturally after March 15 are counted as wild steelhead spawners, which could include any stray Snyder Creek fish. In any event, they would be a small percentage of the total.
The greater problem is the fairly credible report (from a former biologist or technician) of Quilayute Tribal spawner surveys being doctored a few years ago to reflect higher spawner counts than were actually observed.
What? Tribes cooking data? Unheard of...
Bob Triggs, you make some interesting points but don't I'm not sure what prompted that last paragraph. There were actually relatively few people on this thread who seemed to be expressing opposition to the boat ban because it would crimp their style of "flyfishing" (i.e., nymphing from a boat). I read more people inferring that this is a disguised effort to get the gear guys off the water, which in reality may not be a legitimate criticism but you have to admit that this proposed regulation is certainly susceptible to that inference. Also, some posters expressed legitimate concern that a regulation of this kind is going to concentrate people in those areas (which on some rivers are relatively few) that can be effectively fished by foot.
Finally, why is someone nymphing with a fly rod by definition any more of a "duffer" or otherwise less of a person than someone fishing gear from a boat (or swinging flies for that matter)? I've nymphed for steelhead from a boat a few times and although I infinitely prefer swinging flies while wading, I have decided it is not entirely as easy as I assumed it was before trying it. (And based on even more limited experience fishing gear from a boat, I have to say that gear fishing is quite a bit easier than nymphing with a fly rod). Is the prejudice towards flyrodders who nymph really based on a history of unethical behavior from that segment of the angling community? I know when I'm wade fishing I instinctively react negatively to anyone fishing the same water with fly gear and beads or yarnies (more so than gear even!), but objectively I have to admit that is a reaction that is borne of my own person biases about the "best" methods for fishing for steelhead. Granted, I don't spend nearly as much time on the water as you, but I can't really recall any instance where nymphing flyfishers behaved in the ways you are describing (other than maybe hooting and hollering a bit when they hooked fish but that is behavior that is not limited to that segment of the angling community). I will admit that I get frustrated by seeing people doing laps and repeatedly dead-drifting nymphs, beads, and yarnies through the same holding water - but gear anglers do that too (and much more effectively!) and I don't run into it that often because (surprise!) almost all the guys I've run into have been gracious enough to just keep rowing through water that I'm fishing. Taking boats off the water isn't going to necessarily eliminate that behavior (which a meaningful segment of the population obviously believes is an honest method of angling no matter what you or I may think). Depending on the particular piece of water, it would make it harder for a guy who's nymphing with a fly rod, but a guy fishing gear can pound the same water pretty easily on foot - he just may have to buy a pair of waders to do it! And it may just drive more flyfishers to take up centerpinning, which for some reason that hasn't quite sunk in with me seems more "upscale" to the fly angling community than fishing conventional gear.
I do like your idea of restricting fishing to a certain number of days per week (but think it would be best if the tribes' nets are out of the water at least the same days that sports cannot fish) because that would offer refuge to the fish without making a value judgment on whether one particular way of fishing is right or wrong. Oh, and we're way past due for eliminating harvest of any wild steelhead!
Having rivers only open for a few days a week is the dumbest thing I've heard. It would create a gold rush mentality much like the halibut fishery on the North Coast. If you enjoy limited fishing on even more crowded streams it would be a dream.
The halibut fishery is not a model we should be following.
And this thread lasted a long time before the inevitable "nymph vs. swing" crap surfaced. It is too bad because it diminishes the real issues.
Agreed Chris - especially considering most folks are out to C & R and aren't heading to the ramp after their limit, there is none.
Reg changes like these may not solve much but they are a start. What fascinates me is how separated the steelhead fishing community is on the issues we all want the same results from. The WSC probably lost a bunch of support from this and I think it is a good wake up call for them.
It seems like fish conservation groups walk a tight rope between what's best for the fish and losing members and support. I thInk if you actually read their proposals and their reasoning people might view these regs differently.
The separation is natural. While we are all allies in the abstract, realities such as harvest, hatcheries, bait fishIng, barbless hooks, etc do separate us.
The Deschutes river has the same rule and you need a boaters pass to float the river. Seems like that river is doing alright. Jet boats can't run up and down the river every day either. Why would it be a bad idea for some washington rivers? Washington has plenty of water for everyone to fish, it's the lazy fisherman that annoy me.
Some people want to rearrange the deck chairs.
So said the newly appointed Puget Sound Partnership Director, of broader Puget Sound recovery, but very apt.
The proposers of these rule changes have the best interest of the fish at heart I believe, which is something I've been advocating for years. I applaud their work and hope it continues. I like the idea of the Skagit being a wild Steelhead management zone and the selective gear rules and catch and release for trout on all P.S. rivers, as well as the mandatory hatchery retention. The O.P. rivers are the last best hope for wild Steelhead in the state and we need to protect them before it's too late, no matter how we choose to fish for them.
yeah.\,, what he said
How does guide licensing work in this state?
It's like buying a fishing license.
Thats what I thought, thanks for the confirmation.
Like what bkerbs said above, the Deschutes limits the number of boats on the water and you can only fish from the bank. It's a gorgeous fishery and a very clean river -- at least the sections I've fished. Seems like a good compromise to me.
fished the Klick this weekend,,, if was running clear and more crowded than I have ever seen it... looked like the Wilson in January...
Maybe we should close it; just stop fishing for Wild Steelhead entirely, Close all of the rivers and let them recover for a few decades, Concentrate on restoration of habitats and water quality, Emphasis on enforcement. Have a nice boat ride!
Bob, not sure if you are being serious or not. Some of the previous 6 pages includes examples of rivers that have been closed for sometimes 10 or more years without any significant increase in the population. So there is no guarantee that merely closing rivers indefinitely will cause the recovery we are looking for and probably won't have the desired effect we want. In the meantime, anglers begin to lose faith in closed rivers and often anglers are the ones safeguarding the river and looking out for its best interest. Also, if you take away the lowest impact to the resource without addressing the larger impacts, your net gain is negligible and you simply just lost recreational opportunity without any of the benefits it does have. While simply closing rivers seems like a logical choice and you can make the argument that you have to start somewhere, there are many better options available to us than just closing down the river completely.
Yes like reducing our impacts (boat ban). Too bad soo many people are so stubborn about not losing their rights to fish however they please that they would rather just destroy the resource completely than give just a little so we all can continue to enjoy it.