FYI: Boat-ban suggested for Klickitat, Hoh, other rivers

Discussion in 'Steelhead' started by Dan Nelson, Jul 13, 2012.

  1. You haven't been here much longer than me, friend. I honestly didn't mean any harm, but if you want to take it as such, then there is obviously no convincing you. Which is fine. The guy must be the Ghandi of steelheading, and I was just not aware of it. A thousand pardons. This site is such a joke sometimes.
    Blake Harmon and Chris Bellows like this.
  2. I guess he was talking to you JS... classic WFF!

    I'm sure Bob's impact is minimal compared to most others but he is still out there showing people how it's done and that doesn't fall in line with some of his statements in this thread.
  3. You can't please everyone...

    WDFW Staff support many of the proposals based on science and data collected from the rivers and specific sections in question.You can email WDFW yourself and ask for the spawning ground survey data.

    You can hate and complain all you want about the regs proposals and I know some will be shot down for sure, but when the same management scheme is employed for another 10 years and we continually watch the same thing over and over, at least some people stood up and did something instead of hide on the internet and bitched about it. You could have easily submitted rule proposals in June. It was online and took very little time to create a proposal, although a scientifically based proposal with broad support took much more time to create. Did anyone actually submit a proposal to eliminate wild steelhead retention this year? Bait ban? Barbless hooks?

    I see lots of great lists of issues that could possibly help the problem, but they are simply lists thrown out in a forum and nothing will come of them. I challenge you to actually do something for wild steelhead in Washington. Contact WDFW Policy makers and ask/tell them what needs to be done and how you can help. WDFW still assumes the vast majority of people want to kill wild steelhead and love hatcheries. Tell them that isn't the case or it will continue to be the management scheme.
  4. FYI: Yes, I am a guide out here on the Olympic Peninsula. And no, I do not guide fishing out of a boat. We walk and wade, and barely ever actually wade beyond shin deep with great attention paid to the risk of interrupting nesting or spawning, or guarding fish on redds,of any species. I guide fly fishermen with some old school ethics; flyfishing only, Catch & Release, single barbless hook scentless fly, no floats or indicators, no heavy weights or jigs, no upstream casting or lifting. We work a few good runs in a day, quite thoroughly. We spend most of our time fishing.

    The last few winters I took increasing responsibility in caring for an elder friend who was in a bad way. Eventually I ended up living with him last fall, winter and spring, and nursed him through to his death, at home, in his own bed, which is what he wanted and needed. So I didnt guide at all last winter, nor even fish once, from late september last year through may. I didnt even renew my licenses until late may this year. I was happy to send a few people who called on me for winter steelhead trips to Doug Rose, who is also someone I think of as a conservationist guide. The winter before last I only guided a few guests who had been with me in the past. Ironically enough it was a boat fishing guide who ruined that day for us both. A story for another day.

    I think of myself as a lifelong student of conservation, and of preservation and restoration. And much of my own personal life is involved in regional restoration and conservation issues here. Everyone has his own personal learning curve.I began fishing as a child in 1952, and I killed everything that I caught for the next 25 years, with bait, lures etc., fresh and saltwaters, every which way you can think of. Then I made the commitment to learn how to flyfish. Its been over thirty years of study and adventure ever since. I have worked very hard to learn about the state of our fisheries here, and of their past. It is something that I undertake seriously. I decided on catch and release flyfishing is the only responsible way that I could fish. I think that my guiding ethic reflects that. In my own personal fishing I have reduced my impacts on wild steelhead by limiting my fishing to just a half day at a time, a few times a season. And I have a personal limit of one fish- I catch one wild steelhead and I am very happy to
    release that fish and then call it a day.

    I barely guide more than that as well. A few days a week at most is fine with me. There was a time when I virtually lived on these rivers, camping and fishing, scouting, haunting the fish and the waters most of the time. And that includes winters; hunkered down in the rainforest, through floods and high water and deep freezes and howling winds and snow and ice and trees falling around me, river banks collapsing, roads washing out, power lines down. Fishing through most of that while the internet experts were home safe and warm. I worked hard to catch as many fish as I could, and guided that way too. But I evolved in my behavior and actions as a reflection of my evolution in understanding. I dont know everything, but I know what I know. And I am always willing to learn. I grew up.

  5. Sorry to hear about your loss Bob. You are a good friend and should have some good mojo coming your way. I was not aware of your personal situation, I just noticed that you advertise guided trips on the OP here on WFF. It's great to hear there are some conservation minded guides like yourself out there who can find a balance.
  6. Bob, you couldn't have answered my question more gracefully. I understand, and thank you for being a responsible presence in that area. Again, I did not intend to offend. I am also sorry for your loss.

    I have been fishing for steelhead with a fly for more than 15 of my nearly 30 years on this earth. Frustration with the issues facing steelhead has lead to a lot of angst in my life, and it pains me to see things the way they are. I had high aspirations for guiding steelhead fishing trips after my first season guiding in Alaska, but my frustrations about the condition of our fisheries won out. I simply could not justify it, and this is something that I deliberated over for some time, only coming to this decision over the last two years. From the sounds of things you are an incredibly responsible guide, but there are outfits that are not operating under the same moralities. Which is why I posted the reaction to your prior post about closing recreational fisheries, because I see far more of those guides in operation than gentlemen such as yourself.

    There is a lot that I do not understand, but I question everything and that is how I have come to know what I know. I am with you on that note in particular (as an educator I have to be), and I try to absorb any knowledge I can on our fisheries. I hope that no one got the impression that I think I know it all; I do not. However, I know that I can't justify guiding for these fish. I am growing up; though it is a painful process.

    I thank Bob for responding to my question personally, and I do not think that he needed anyone to scold me prior. I am going to take a long, long break from WFF now.
    Derek Young and Blake Harmon like this.
  7. Scold???? Really:) ...looks like peach fuzz to me bro,good luck there Jared!!! Thanks Bob for your reply!
  8. Mr. Triggs gets it. The everyone else is doing it so I'm gonna take mine too attitude is going to damn us all in the end whether it be steelhead or anything else.

    Everyone will give something up with a boat ban. If you fish from a boat currently, you will have to get out and work harder. If you fish from shore currently, you will have to deal with people in your spots and getting low holed and such. But the fish will benefit and that will benefit all of us in the long run. The only problem with the proposal is that it is too nice to everyone, the ban should be for the whole rivers or at least the entire Hoh.

    I put two proposals in to the WDFW. One for a boat and bait ban on the Hoh.

    The next was for every Puget Sound and Coastal River.
    1.Bait ban, single barbless hooks.
    2.Ban fishing from a boat on all of them.
    3.Reopen all the Puget Sound Rivers
    4. Close them all March 30.
    5. No wild fish retention.

    Spread all the fishing back out. Minimize all our impacts. Everyone would get to fish, crowds would be lessened, and our fishing experience would go up. I am not a rocket scientist but I guarantee this would work. Convincing everyone seems impossible though.

    PS I am also a guide on the OP who will not fish from the boat. I do run a boat for transport but that is it.

    Evan Burck likes this.
  9. Attack, on your proposal #2, or any other proposal banning fishing from a boat on "all rivers," one would have to make that "...above the head of tidewater," for it to have any chance of convincing me at all.

    Due to the geography of my local area, I do much of my fishing in tidewater, and that includes long stretches in the tidal reaches of many coastal rivers and streams that (thankfully) have little or no public bank access due to the lack of riverside trails thru the tidal marshes. The few (very few) good spots with bank access to tidewater salmon fishing are already crowded to the max most of the time as soon as the fishing gets good and reports start coming out. You cannot fly fish or rollerskate in a buffalo herd. You need a boat to get around all that.

    That said, I actually might support a proposal to ban fishing from a boat on many rivers, as long as it didn't attempt to restrict me from trolling (for salmon, as well as trolling flies for cutthroat) or casting from my boat in tidewater. I am fishing tidewater for salmon and cutthroat, not steelhead, though.
    Jerry Daschofsky likes this.
  10. I appreciate the coninued proposal for mandatory wild steelhead release. I have some fear that it will only open it up to increased gillnetting but it certainly could be very helpful if the foregone opportunity card does not win the day. Putting some fish on the gravel would cetainly help.

    I know that WSC had it's collective heart in the right place with the no boat proposals. I do think that it was a bad idea when everything is factored in. WSC will likely lose some support over it which is unfortunate. Also unfortunate is a growing sense that management of sport anglers is the avenue towards increased fish runs. It would be nice if this was the case as we have some say over sport reg.'s. Unfortunately, I don't think it will have any effect. If sportfishing for steelhead on the OP was closed 100%, I do not believe we would see an increase of even 1 steelhead.

    In the mean time I will spend some time trying to figure out our issues in the PS. Our runs are trending up a bit. The upsurge has had nothig to do with greater restrictions on anglers, since we were allowed to fish for the parents of these fish. Likely it's just a change in the amount of smolts that survived the sound and big ocean.

    Best of luck Chris. I respect the effort, even when I don't agree with all of it.

    Go Sox,
  11. With all due respect, "sport fishing" accounted for about 1000 (dont quote exact #s i didnt look) dead wild steelhead on the OP this year since wild fish kill is still allowed...i think that makes a difference.

    the attitude that "we" as sport fisherman or any other group dont have an impact is exactly the problem. maybe nets or oceans have a larger impact but it all makes a difference.

  12. I should have said this is my thoughts for wild winter fish season when i see these issues... jan 15 on maybe?...and tidewater is fine for whatever...very little steelhead fishing goes on that i know of in tidewater around here.

  13. I agree that we should stop killing them. My point is only that every fish that we don't kill may allow for greater net killing. That is unless the whole forgone oppertunity deal is litigated. Maybe shutting it down is the way to go in order to get that into the courts. It's kind of a game of chicken. Given the states record v. the tribes I don't know if now is the time to do it or not.

    What I do know is that it's damn hard to find a path to increased escapements by way of the sportfishing rulebook. The path will have to run through the courts. It's easier to get fishermen to write checks for a worthwhile court fight if they don't think that you are out to shut them down. Right now many anglers think just that. In the long run that may hurt much more than C&R mortality.

    It's time that we say "no! we aren't the problem" and choose strategies to fight the actual problem. Lawyers and money. Those are the tools to recovery.

    I appreciate everyone's passion. I wish we could steer it at the problem, along with a shitload of cash.

    Go Sox,

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