"Grain" scale?

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by Dave Hartman, Feb 2, 2008.

  1. Dave Hartman

    Dave Hartman Strip'n Flywear

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    Hey guys,
    I know a bunch of you are experienced with building your own lines. Just a quick question here: where did you find a scale that measures in "grains"?
    Okay, two questions. Anybody know the history of why we measure in grains? as opposed to grams?
     
  2. Preston

    Preston Active Member

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    The grain are simply a much smaller unit of weight than a gram (and not a part of the metric system). Bullet weights and powder loads are commonly expressed in grains. The most readily available scales that measure in grains are those used by shooters who reload their own ammunition.
     
  3. Dave Hartman

    Dave Hartman Strip'n Flywear

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    Well that makes sense. Wow, congrats on a 1000 posts Preston!
    I'll check with the gun shop down the street. Maybe I should go now, before the Super Bowl, cuz if my Patriots lose tomorrow, I'll be wanting to buy a gun . . .
     
  4. Daryle Holmstrom

    Daryle Holmstrom retiredfishak

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    OK, I have a grain scale that I use for measuring the gold rings I find metal detecting, bought it at the gun shop in Alger. How does one use it to measure the heads of fly lines?

    Daryle
     
  5. Permaskunk

    Permaskunk New Member

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    I bought mine on the auction site. It will weigh up to about 600grams, and convert to oz, grains and a couple others. I think it set me back about $15 with shipping.
     
  6. Daryle Holmstrom

    Daryle Holmstrom retiredfishak

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    First 30 feet or what?
     
  7. Jergens

    Jergens AKA Joe Willauer

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    i think he's talking about spey heads, where they are detached from the running line, actually i should say thats why i want one!
     
  8. Daryle Holmstrom

    Daryle Holmstrom retiredfishak

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    I was wondering that, but was thinking other formulas
     
  9. sashjo

    sashjo Member

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    Avoirdupois! Simple conversion 1 gr= 64.8 mg
     
  10. ak_powder_monkey

    ak_powder_monkey Proud to Be Alaskan

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  11. fredaevans

    fredaevans Active Member

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    That's really only for 'one-hander rod' lines. Spey lines now have their own rating system based upon the length of the head.I'm almost certain Simon has a description of the how/what on RIO's main web site.

    Fred
     
  12. Red Shed

    Red Shed "junkyard spey"

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    While a grain scale used by reloaders works very well for weighing lines they cost to much unless you are also a reloader.

    I think any fly shop that is heavily into spey tackle will sell grain scales that work well for weighing lines. I know Aaron (Speybum) has them as does the Red Shed and Bachmann in Welches.

    One can also make do with a postal scale and I have even used a food scale a few times.

    While there is now in place a "spey line standard" I believe most people weighing spey lines are more interested in the weight of the total head (tip, front taper, belly, rear taper).

    If one is a line mechanic, a grain scale is an important tool. It should also be noted if one wants to mess around weighing and chopping lines that a line winder, and a micrometer/caliper are also valuable tools.

    The easiest way I have found to weigh the head of a spey line is to use an empty fly line box set on the scale on edge. Tare the scale with the box in place. Coil the portion of the line to be weighed in about 5" or 6" coils secure it with a fly line pipe cleaner/twisty, place it in the box and you have your weight for the given line section. If one wants to weigh a short piece (under 20') just coil around your hand and lay it on the scale tray.

    It should be noted if one is weighing the heads of spey lines it is possible to find +/- variations different from the published weight of said line. This is common with ALL line manufacturers and in my opinion is not something to be worried about. I use the number on the box as a starting reference point only.

    There are 7000grns in a pound, 437.5grns in an ounce, and 15.432grns in a gram.
     
  13. speyfisher

    speyfisher Active Member

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    iagreeDitto on what Poppy said.
    The old balance type powder scales are too expensive. Do not have the range. (500gr limit) Not near as accurate. Or versitle.
    Digital grain scale: about $30
    Calipers, dial or otherwise are marginal for measuring soft items like flylines.
    Micrometers are much better because they have a pair of flat "anvils" about 1/4 inch diameter. But michromerters are rather expensive, and unless digital, take some training to learn to read.
    A snap gage with a range of .125 will have anvils like a michrometer, and an easy to read dial. And cost less $$$
    Try Harbor Freight. Or some discount tool supply shop.

    The method I use for weighing flylines is as follows.
    Place the grain scale on a narrow platform (3" wide) overhanging the work top.
    Place the lid, which doubles as a tray, and comes with the scale, on top of the scale, turned side ways.
    Tare the lid/tray.
    Hang the line, in large coils, over the tray.

    Anything you don't want weighed, like the running line for example, let hang down and lay on the floor. Only the line that is off the floor is being weighed.
     
  14. Jamie Wilson

    Jamie Wilson Active Member

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    Grain scale, caliper, and winder are required - even if you are a 'newbie' line mechanic as am I. I got a scale through a catalog - I believe it was Fly Fish USA and around 30 bucks for the scale. Great way to spend an afternoon - weighing lines, weighing and measuring your sink tips, cutting and splicing, etc. It is remarkable how you can match a line to your current rod and casting stroke. Makes for a totally custom set up that can really work for the situations you normally fish. Most of the advice I got came from this site!!
    Good Luck-
    Magill
     
  15. FlyShopKristin

    FlyShopKristin Going Online

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    All About the Fly carries a small, digital grain scales in the shop, they run about $20.
     
  16. Dave Ellis

    Dave Ellis Member

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  17. Red Shed

    Red Shed "junkyard spey"

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    While the Umpqua line scale will weigh 30' of single hand lines I don't believe it has the range to weigh spey lines. It takes a scale that will go to 1200grns minimum to really cover the bases.

    In a pinch one could use the Umpqua scale and weigh a spey line in a couple of section but if one is interested in being a line mechanic a digital grain scale is a very good tool.
     
  18. Bert Kinghorn

    Bert Kinghorn Formerly "nextcast"

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    I'm with Poppy. My Umpqua scale goes to 30 grams or about 450 grains, not nearly enough if you want to make lines for most 2-handers. It is also not very precise. It might be good to the nearest 10 grains at the lower end of its scale, but at the upper end it is hard to read to the nearest 20.

    The Umpqua scales can be useful though if you just want to sort sink tips, single-handed shooting heads, etc.
     
  19. mjyp

    mjyp New Member

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    Aaron and Poppy both have the scale you need, I would also add one more item. Al Buhr's line building booklet, which both of the aforementioned have. Ablut $50 (shipping included) gets you what you need to get started.

    May be a good idea if they are packaged as kit. Either way you can't lose.
     
  20. Red Shed

    Red Shed "junkyard spey"

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    I sell such a kit. It includes Al's line splicing book, grain scale, and my line splicing kit upgraded with the big pin vise. I call it Poppy's Deluxe Line Splicing Kit. It can be found on my line splicing and loop making webpage.
     

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