Has guideline shot themselves in the foot

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by John Hicks, May 29, 2012.

  1. John Hicks Owner and operator of Sea Run Pursuits

    Posts: 2,099
    Olympia
    Ratings: +150 / 1
    It wasn't all that long ago that finding a guideline LeCie was damn near impossible and if one did come up for sale, it sold in minutes. Those times have gone away. I have watched several get posted in the classifieds on here and speypages, and never get so much as a sniff from prospective buyers.

    These rods are arguably the best scandi rod on the market, so what gives? Is it the amount of bad press guideline has gotten on the interwebs as of late? Are people feeling that they might buy something that cannot be fixed in the future?
  2. TallFlyGuy Adipossessed!

    Posts: 851
    Vancouver, WA.
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    I think when they went to four piece rods instead of three, that really screwed them up!!!
  3. Panhandle Active Member

    Posts: 4,103
    Selkirk Mountains, Idaho Panhandle
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    Why would moving to a four piece screw things up? Things in fly-fishing are all fad. The leCie was the new cool obscure rod that everyone was talking about. Now its mainstream talk and no longer that cool.
  4. Steelie Mike Active Member

    Posts: 1,600
    Camas, WA
    Ratings: +24 / 0
    The addition of the ferrule to make it a 4 piece rod altered the action and recovery. This is a tip flex rod so if you look at it from the standpoint that they cut and added a ferrule right where you flex the rod, then you have to believe it effects the action. That being said, not everyone lines and fishes the Lecie the same way and the feel one has may be different for someone else.
    TallFlyGuy likes this.
  5. Panhandle Active Member

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    Selkirk Mountains, Idaho Panhandle
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    That makes sense.
  6. TallFlyGuy Adipossessed!

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    Vancouver, WA.
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    Yeah, exactly that. Thanks Brian err I mean Mike :)
  7. Panhandle Active Member

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    Selkirk Mountains, Idaho Panhandle
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    In theory, there shouldn't be any action change in higher modules upper end rods.
  8. KerryS Ignored Member

    Posts: 6,539
    Sedro Woolley, WA, USA.
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    Do you realize what you just said? Now the theorists will be all over this thread and only those with degrees in physics will be able to understand any of it.:confused:
  9. Flyborg Active Member

    Posts: 2,284
    Kalama, WA
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    I have no opinions on the merits of the Lecie since I've never cast one. I don't think Guideline is content to be a one-trick pony, however. I've known Leif Stavmo for a long time--he's one of the nicest guys in fly fishing, even if he is a Swede. Leif was at the Sandy Spey Clave this year, and I had a good discussion with him about his business.

    As consumers we've seen a lot of European imports come into the country, spend a shit-ton of money on advertising, then quietly leave when profits don't merit their large marketing budgets. That's never been Guideline's shtick; they like to sell their products on the merits of performance and manage growth carefully. Leif is one of the few guys from overseas that seems to understand that the European marketing model doesn't fit the American market.

    So, I'd like to think that Guideline hasn't nixed themselves in the market just because of the LeCie. They have plenty of other decent products. Plus, they're super nice dudes (sans dirty Swedes) and that counts for a lot in my book. They're growth in Europe has been great, which I'm sure makes it difficult to focus on the American market, but I think that will change soon.
    fredaevans and shotgunner like this.
  10. yuhina Tropical member

    Posts: 2,315
    Boston-Idaho
    Ratings: +41 / 0
    Agreed! What a amazing rods! Single footed guide design doesn't come up that often and they do everything they can to create those amazing crispy feel... great company.

    For the resale values? I think it has more to do with the demands on the used gear market... it might simply already has too many Guildeline rods out there... so the demand decreases... Another thing is the service, I am not sure if Guildeline will end up like another CND company (no longer have dealer in the US). It will be such a hassle for me to ship my rod oversea to get it repaired... I would rather stay with something local.

    Mark
  11. speyghillie speyghillie

    Posts: 179
    River Spey Scotland
    Ratings: +20 / 0
    Hi All,
    Just wanter to add a couple of points regarding some of the european rod companies that distribute in North America, Guidline came into the US market like a bullet spending lots of money on Marketing and Pro Staff and i mean lots of money, and all was going really well until the distribution and service broke down, something i am sure they will sort out and hope they do as they are a great bunch of guys, trouble is its hard to get confidence back but i hope they do.
    In the UK a couple of years before, guidline was all the rage but after the amount of breakages reported on the internet.... it all went down hill and i am sure the sales have fallen through the floor.
    CND rod are owned by Nobuo (custon Nabuo Design) a great guy who used to design all the rods at Diawa UK before setting up his own company, now he is nearing retirement i guess he is not really that worried about the US market to be honest.
    I remember Scierra getting an office in the US and setting up to get ready to market there products , it lasted a few weeks not even months, and Loop have sold off 75% of the company to raise capital and decided to spent no money on advertising this year.
    I guess what i'm saying is that its a hard time for lots of companies all over the world and also for fishing stores, Loop, CND and a host of other companies have dissapeared of the map in the UK and the market here is much bigger, i expect to see less companies at the CLA next month and it has around 80,000 fishers visit over the weekend.
    Gordon.
    DXT Pro Staff

    www.mackenzieflyfishing.com
  12. shawn k Member

    Posts: 697
    buckets worldwide
    Ratings: +19 / 0
    My 2 cents. There are so many good rod companies here in the US its hard for any Fly shop here to justify throwing down the profit they make from carrying and selling other products
    to bring in a new brand from some unknown European company with the European prices to boot. The new hardy rods are a perfect example yes they make some good rods but when the rubber meets the road they wont sell here in the us. Not many people will throw down that kind of coin for a rod.
  13. TallFlyGuy Adipossessed!

    Posts: 851
    Vancouver, WA.
    Ratings: +34 / 0
    For the most part guideline appears to be a great company. I hope some of their guys read this thread and take this input seriously.

    Guideline had/has something special. Something that all rod manufacturers want. Something that sets them apart. What was this special thing? For the most part it was their 3 piece series Lecie sticks. The action and feel of these rods were getting noticed and a cult following was building. The "casters" were getting these rods into the hands of the "fishers" and things were starting to click. Then what does guideline do? They change everything and go to a four piece lecie. Some of the feel is gone, and that is why you are seeing all the 4 piece lecies up on the classified sections.

    Two summers ago fishing the clack with Chou, he had decided my casting had come far enough to appreciate the lecie 7wt 3pc. I cast it and was in love. Had to have one. I think this same scenerio was taking place more and more. I wish they would bring it back!!
  14. Dan Page Active Member

    Posts: 438
    Yelm, Wa., USA.
    Ratings: +29 / 0
    I see Guideline has made the LPXe into a 4 piece rod as well.
    Having used the 3 pc LeCie and 3 pc LPXe quite a bit the past several years I agree, that they are quite effective and pleasurable rods to use. They pull out a sunken head like no other rod I've used --(I've never cast a Scierra rod nor most of the Loops) I've not cast the 4 pc LPXe, but the 4 pc LeCie does not do for me what my 3 pc does. My 3 pc Guideline rods were reasonably priced. The Guideline heads seemed a bit pricey, but work quite well on their rods. The DDC with Intermediate head is a favorite winter set-up for me.
    I wonder what the European fisherpeople think of these 4 pc rods. 4 pc rods make travel easier as most American rod makers now go with 4 pc rods. I'd think 3 pc rods would be cheaper to make.
    If the demand is there, I'd think they'd re-introduce them.
  15. fredaevans Active Member

    Posts: 3,079
    White City, Oregon, USA.
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    Mark, this appears to be the case from recent posts I've seen on UK based fishing boards. But the real problem (in my simplistic view) is the lack of a real National Distribution system is what brings them to their knees. As well known as Hardy may be, until they hooked up with major national distributor they weren't going anywhere .........

    Their 'old reels' (actually made in England) still command an astonishing price, but its because of the 'History' behind the product. Ever actually consider what's in one of their reels? Zip, but the price they want for a new one just makes me roll my eyes.
    fae
    yuhina likes this.
  16. Dan Page Active Member

    Posts: 438
    Yelm, Wa., USA.
    Ratings: +29 / 0
    I've often wondered how rod design changes with the changing rod user market. How much are the old designs changed to accommadate the influx of less experienced casters, to make the rods more "user friendly"? I've read on several posts the old Le Cies were too "fast" for beginners. I don't agree with that, but I suspect such comments affect what beginners will purchase. Could it be a rod maker will change design to capture more of the influx of new casters?
  17. yuhina Tropical member

    Posts: 2,315
    Boston-Idaho
    Ratings: +41 / 0
    Good to hear the thoughts from Europe , I wonder if they consider the same factors when buying SAGE or loomis...

    The reel is a good point... How many people will consider "repair service
    "as part of the equation? I don't... Because there is tiny chance to have a reel failure compare to rod. I won't hesitate to buy unique , samll companies from Japan or Sweden. And if it fail... There are so many experts in the us can fix it for you with samll fee.
  18. John Hicks Owner and operator of Sea Run Pursuits

    Posts: 2,099
    Olympia
    Ratings: +150 / 1
    Justin, I have to totally disagree with you. I have cast the three piece for an entire summer and I own the 4 piece. I don't think that there is enough difference between the two to merit saying they "screwed them up!!!"

    Just my .02 cents having cast both extensively that is.
  19. TallFlyGuy Adipossessed!

    Posts: 851
    Vancouver, WA.
    Ratings: +34 / 0
    Cool, do you have a three piece lecie 7wt you wanna sell, or know anyone who does?
  20. Panhandle Active Member

    Posts: 4,103
    Selkirk Mountains, Idaho Panhandle
    Ratings: +23 / 0
    If you guys have any issues contact Buddy Wright. He's tour west coast rep. Great guy who can work to resolve any of your Guideline issues and questions. bvwright@q.com