Hoh River Wild Steelhead Run Fails Again!

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Bob Triggs, Oct 2, 2013.

  1. NateTreat

    NateTreat Banned or Parked

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    That's where I come from. I guess I meant if one fish dies from being caught, that could affect the numbers a tiny bit. A teeny tiny bit. But like you say, not enough to make a measurable difference. When you see that the escapement goal in the system is a measly 2,400 fish, that boggles my mind. I know guys say not to compare it to PS rivers, but with the Skagit making returns of 6k fish without a fishery, even C&R that is pretty crazy.

    With hatchery fish 2,400 fish would be a giant return. Hatchery fish are necessary because their will always be the anglers that want to catch and kill. Some of our hatcheries are really too expensive to keep doing what they are doing. We should focus on the hatchery programs that do work, put numbers in those systems that support the catch and kill fishery, and let the other rivers wild fish runs rebuild. It's political, and I'm not a fan of politics.
     
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  2. John Hicks

    John Hicks Owner and operator of Sea Run Pursuits

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    If we (the sport fishermen) stop advocating for wild fish, they will die off. If we (the sport fishermen) do not educate those around us and those that we come in contact with, the wild fish will die off. I am constantly amazed at the ignorance of the general public, even with todays media saturation. It IS my job and duty to educate everyone that I come in contact with about the subject. I can hope that if I talk to 100 people about wild steelhead, 10 of them will come away with a better understanding and a different outlook on our wild fish. Of those 10 if only one has some sort of influence either monetarily or socially and does something about it, I have succeeded.

    There are those that say if I love them so much, why not stop chasing them? Well, in short, I am not that big of a person. I do however mitigate my damage by chasing wild fish by the least effective and thus least detrimental means. I will walk away from a great day at noon if I have had success. I have stepped out of the water and just enjoyed the fact that I can still stand in said water. To me catching is by far and away secondary to enjoying the fact that I don't hear a phone, or text, or I.M. or Tweet. I feel that I am not alone in this feeling.

    There are many sport fisherman, that if they walked away from fishing for these fish they would walk away from advocating for them as well. This is not a good thing for the fish. As only public awareness will save these fish. So if the impact of sport fishing on wild fish is minimal, I feel that the good far outways the bad. If we can educate those around us and eliminate the current demand for "Wild PNW Steelhead" the commercial fisherman and tribes would stop harvesting them.
     
  3. Itchy Dog

    Itchy Dog Some call me Kirk Werner

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    I think what makes the issue wild fish advocacy such a challenge is that the largest voice available to the cause— the general public—isn't aware and doesn't care. More and more people are so disconnected with the outdoors in general that matters facing fish aren't even on their radar. To the average person, Steelhead are steelhead, salmon are salmon. They don't care what the tribes are doing. Hatchery vs. wild isn't even something they're aware of. So as John mentioned above, the general public needs to be continually educated, 1 person at a time, in hopes of reaching a small number of people that may then start to care and then begin to gain momentum. Public ignorance and apathy are a huge obstacle that wild fish advocates must overcome before WDFW can be pressured to make policy changes that will really begin to address the matter. It may seem like a daunting task to enlighten the masses, but those who advocate for wild fish need to stay the course and not give up until the last wild fish is gone.
     
  4. FinLuver

    FinLuver Active Member

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    ...as long as that education is done with "truthful" science and not science made to fit a "particular" point of view, which is what is rampantly spread these day.


    and the reason why the masses don't give a rip. ;)
     
  5. 1morecast

    1morecast Active Member

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    "Angling experience is not a conservation issue". I disagree. When it becomes more important to hook or land a fish at any cost, angling experience becomes a conservaton issue.
     
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  6. juro

    juro New Member

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  7. Charles Sullivan

    Charles Sullivan dreaming through the come down

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    I don't quite understand what you mean. Are you talking about snagging?

    I don't think the importance of catching a fish to the angler changes any of the factors of mortalty, or the current management paradigm. Am I missing something?

    Go Sox,
    cds
     
  8. _WW_

    _WW_ Fishes with Wolves

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    ...and you have some "truthful" science to back up that comment? :)
     
  9. bennysbuddy

    bennysbuddy the sultan of swing

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    This explains why I don't catch many steelhead anymore, without the hatchery fish there are no dumb steelhead out there that I have the ability to catch!!!
     
  10. Sean Beauchamp

    Sean Beauchamp Hot and Heavy at yer 6

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    How many here fished the hoh last winter season and specifically how many where on the river in April??
     
  11. Chris Bellows

    Chris Bellows Your Preferred WFF Poster

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    what is the "truthful" science and how is it being misused? specifics please.
     
  12. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

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    Yes, you (and a number of others) are missing something. Everyone of us decides for themselves whether fishing certain fisheries, which are known to be in trouble, is the right thing to do. The decision not to fish in any manner eliminates the risk that activity introduces...and they all do.

    So, when it gets right down to it, 1morecast is spot on when he stated "When it becomes more important to hook or land a fish at any cost, angling experience becomes a conservation issue". That a number of folks try and rationalize the risk to satisfy their need to fish does not change that fact.
     
  13. Charles Sullivan

    Charles Sullivan dreaming through the come down

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    The question was directed at 1morecast. Thanks.

    Go Sox,
    cds
     
  14. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

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    Your welcome.
     
  15. FinLuver

    FinLuver Active Member

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    and the reason why the masses don't give a rip.
    ...and you have some "truthful" science to back up that comment? :)


    Look around....is the battle progressing in the direction for the good of the fish in a timely manner??

    If it were, there wouldn't be the amount of posts on the "subject" on forums like this.

    Kinda hard to argue with that "science"...and it's the "truth".

    'nuff said :cool:
     
  16. PT

    PT Physhicist

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    You talk about studies and science and facts. And when questioned you come back with "look around" and " 'nuff said". I'm guessing you have an opinion about stuff and possibly you heard something somewhere that resonates as the direction you'd like to see fisheries management taken. But, all you seem to have is generalities and the occasional attempt at a one liner.


    Just an observation from the cheap seats.
     
  17. Jason Rolfe

    Jason Rolfe Wanderer

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    Thank you for putting into words what I've been thinking for some time

    Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk
     
  18. John Hicks

    John Hicks Owner and operator of Sea Run Pursuits

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    Well, I cannot speak for "timely manor" but in my own experiences, yes the issue is getting out to the public. Look as the decrease in offerings of wild steelhead on menus and in stores. People that I talk to are more and more educated on the issue. I do not have to start at zero very often with the discussion. Many times the conversation is just an opportunity for them to ask questions. I would like to see the arguement sink in a little faster, but any speed is better than no speed. Again, if we do not advocate for them, who will?
     
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  19. John Hicks

    John Hicks Owner and operator of Sea Run Pursuits

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    I had a very timely discussion with a friend of mine from the East coast today. He is an avid steelheader, and very conscious of his angling ethic. He asked me what "escapement" ment. I was taken back by this inquiry as I just assumed anyone in the fly fishing community would know this term. Well, I was wrong, and I spent the next 5 minutes explaining escapement to him.
     
  20. FinLuver

    FinLuver Active Member

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    Life is one big experiment...get out of the cheap seats...;)
     

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