Hoh

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by theonethatgotaway, Jan 11, 2012.

  1. Dustin Bise

    Dustin Bise Active Member

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    Now, im not from forks, nor have I spend MUCH time fishing the OP... but I feel like the single best thing that could occur would be more sustainable tribal fisheries. Do I think that will happen, no. And that sucks, but it is what it is.
     
  2. Evan Burck

    Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

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    It would certainly help escapement... But choosing battles we can win may be a better strategy.
     
  3. Dustin Bise

    Dustin Bise Active Member

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    I hear ya.
     
  4. Yard Sale

    Yard Sale Active Member

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    So you guys think it would be more important to ban boat fishing than ban killing wild fish? Really?
     
  5. Evan Burck

    Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

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    Stopping retention on wild fish is a pretty complex issue. Not nearly as simple as it sounds.
     
  6. shawn k

    shawn k Member

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    Since this thread has been hi jacked. Why is it that the WSC, Native fish societyetc arent all over NOAA to get the Qilllayute Tribe to fin clip the summer chinook broodstock they are releasing into the Sol Duc at Bear springs.
    The summer Chinook are considered threatened.
     
  7. Yard Sale

    Yard Sale Active Member

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    Please explain. Are they not clipping all fins?
     
  8. Evan Burck

    Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

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    Stopping sport harvest will merely forfeit our 50% of the allowable catch to the tribal nets. Stopping the tribes from fishing for wild fish will not happen. Keeping sport harvest open is actually the best option to keep the fewest fish from being harvested.
     
  9. Yard Sale

    Yard Sale Active Member

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    Crazy! Thanks for the explanation.
     
  10. Charles Sullivan

    Charles Sullivan dreaming through the come down

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    Very true Evan. The pardigm of foregone opportunity is really a bugger. I'm curious if there is any way to litigate it. Seems like a co-manager should be able to choose to put a portion of their share of fish on the gravel. At present that is not the case, to the detriment of the fish.

    It's also true that the tribes dislike C&R fisheries. Why is that?

    I believe it's because they love to be able to claim the moral high road. If the were the only people killing wild fish, it would be far more difficult, publicly to do that. Maybe, it would be a good idea, politically, to make them the only truely consumptive group.

    As far as fishing from boats goes. I understand the argument and as a flyfisherman I have no problem with it as flyfishing for steelhead takes place from the gravel bar/ bank. However, it may not be the right move to pit gear guys and their beloved Willie's against flyfishermen. It may be better to stick together so to speak.

    Go Sox,
    cds
     
  11. attack

    attack Member

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    a boat ban doesnt say gear guys cant fish gear...it just means they need to try a little harder to be successful.
     
  12. Charles Sullivan

    Charles Sullivan dreaming through the come down

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    Just for one moment, look at it from their perspective. Do you think that they are gonna view it as "We just need to try a little harder to be succesful" or do you think it would be viewed as the elitist flyguys trying to kepp us from fishing how we like to fish?

    Go Sox,
    cds
     
  13. attack

    attack Member

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    neither, i think politics and personal preferences need to be put aside for the good of the fish. i also think if this could happen fishing opportunities could exist into the future. as is, with the boat train down all these rivers, that time is very limited.
     
  14. James Mello

    James Mello Inventor of the "closed eye conjecture"

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    Foregone opportunity has not been challenged in court yet. This is pure speculation.
     
  15. Evan Burck

    Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

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    I would call it more an "educated guess." :ray1:

    :clown:
     
  16. Charles Sullivan

    Charles Sullivan dreaming through the come down

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    How do you think that it would be viewed then from the perspective of the gear fisherman who fishes out of a boat?

    Go Sox,
    cds
     
  17. PT

    PT Physhicist

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    It hasn't been challenged and likely won't. We live in a very PC state. It is very likely that this part of the treaty is open to an interpretation that would favor the non-tribal fishermen and the fish.

    Evan, the same ol' same ol' isn't going to change. Our politicians won't challenge any minority group because other minority groups won't like it. Our politicians won't risk losing a big part of their voting base. That leaves the sportfishermen fracturing their own unity because it's what we do as a very specific user group. Flyfishermen probably make up about 10% of the total number who fish for steelhead. We need the other 90% (gear fishermen) to have any voice at all.
     
  18. Thomas Mitchell

    Thomas Mitchell Active Member

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    It might be worthwhile to look at the Deschutes and the discussions that went on prior to it's shift to no fishing from boats. I wasn't around when it shifted to the current rules but it seems to be just a matter of course these days.
     
  19. attack

    attack Member

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    i know how it would be viewed. the reason all these fish are in perile is because everyone only cares about their own interests instead of what is right.
     
  20. Charles Sullivan

    Charles Sullivan dreaming through the come down

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    What minority group is likely to side with the tribes? I can't see that. Now the tribes themselves have a lot of power and money. I see that. The NAACP and LBGT community sure as hell have no interest in treaty fishing rights.

    Since I don't know of any instance that Washington state prevailed in court over a fisheries issue, that may be what is holding it back. It could also be that in order to get foregone opportunity to court you would have to forego a harvest opportunity. I don't see the state even trying that tactic. The play that would have to be made would be to shut down sportfishing and claim you are using the state's 50% (or a portion of it) as spawners. The tribe would then have to harvest more than their 50% (likely to happen). Then the state would have to sue the tribe.

    Like the song says, "Bring lawyers, guns and money."

    Go Red Sox,
    cds
     

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