Hoh

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by theonethatgotaway, Jan 11, 2012.

  1. gldntrt40

    gldntrt40 Member

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    The OP rivers will be closed for fishing within 10-15 years is an easy prediction to make.
    Loss of spawning habitat because of logging practice is a huge loss for all the rivers where the watersheds and below suffer. For the luckier rivers of the park that aren't logged, too many mouths to take a bite out of the runs.. sad.
    Websites like this are a big part of the problem, ofcourse. The old days of not even having a clue if a river was in shape kept alot of people home.
    Now, everyone talks about their catches...techniques..spots etc.. Just IMHO, take pics and remember today as the "good old days" of crowded rivers because we will all soon be all sitting home and playing hi-tech 3d virtual steelhead computer games...
     
  2. Brazda

    Brazda Fly Fishing guide "The Bogy House" Lodge

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    Standing on the green river in 1991 I made the same prediction about the Green river in Auburn, where I had been heavily envolved with fishing clubs and WDFW volunteer projects. A few seasons later I quite fishing the Green when a single tribal member decided to challenge the no fishing from a floating device rule and just started fishing when and where ever, in season or not. The next year the ruling was lifted and I left the Green forever...That river took nearly twenty years to reach the state it is in now...
    The rivers on the north coast of the Olympic Peninsula in 2012 are no were close to the the troubles of the Green and Puyallup where in 1991. Aside from sport fishing pressure. This year we will see the largest increase of that since the 70's but in now way as busy as the Bogachiel in 1980-1990..
     
  3. gt

    gt Active Member

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    on second thought, writing fiction on your CRC won't do a bit of good as WDFW has not used 'our' data for about 12 years now. i do know they use highly suspect statistical procedures which always come out with cheerie overblown forecasts, sort of like patting the commercials and indians on the head to avoid conflict.
     
  4. Jonathan Tachell

    Jonathan Tachell Active Member

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    It was always my assumption that the WDFW tallied up the fish counts from our catch record cards and the tribes are supposed to get an equal amount of fish. So it would seem logical to me that not marking fish on your punch card would make more sense. But then the whole forgone oppertunity thing ruins that logic if they get extra fish that were not recorded on catch record cards.
     
  5. Dan Page

    Dan Page Active Member

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    I like the idea of banning fishing from boats. The late (and great) Skagit season required fishermen to not fish while the boat was under power. What made that decision happen?
    The following is from the WDFW site. The word sustainable really sticks out to me.



    http://wdfw.wa.gov/about/mission_goals.html

    Mission and Goals

    Our Mission

    To preserve, protect and perpetuate fish, wildlife and ecosystems while providing sustainable fish and wildlife recreational and commercial opportunities.

    Vision

    Conservation of Washington’s fish and wildlife resources and ecosystems.

    WDFW defines “Conservation” as:

    Protection, preservation, management, or restoration of natural environments and the ecological communities that inhabit them; including management of human use for public benefit and sustainable social and economic needs.
    (Adapted from The American Heritage® Science Dictionary Copyright © 2005)

    Department Goals

    To achieve its mission, WDFW will continue to focus its activities on the following four goals:

    Conserve and protect native fish and wildlife

    Provide sustainable fishing, hunting and other wildlife-related recreational experiences.

    Use sound business practices, deliver high-quality customer service.

    Maintain a highly skilled and motivated workforce.
     
  6. gt

    gt Active Member

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    not so grasshopper, they collect them, stick them in a shoe box, end of tune.
     
  7. Jonathan Tachell

    Jonathan Tachell Active Member

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    Not really a surprise I guess gt. I guess with the state it boils down to money ( writing tickets for failing to fill out catch record cards or return it at the end of the season and charge for additional catch record cards once the first one is filled out ) and convenient data that suits their purposes best.
     
  8. PT

    PT Physhicist

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    Ummmmmmm..... What part of this has WDFW achieved?

    Sustainable fishery on the Skagit? Isn't it closing in the next few days due to not having a sustainable fishery? Or, am I just missing something here?
     
  9. Brazda

    Brazda Fly Fishing guide "The Bogy House" Lodge

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    If WDFW was you investment broker wouldn't you have FIRED them long ago.
     
  10. sleestak240

    sleestak240 Active Member

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    Haha, dead on. If only people were getting $10,000,000/yr bonuses based on the rate of wild steelhead return improvement. We'd be fighting them off with cattle prods. They'd be classified as pests.
     
  11. James Mello

    James Mello Inventor of the "closed eye conjecture"

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    That last sentence nails why this may be won by the folks who want to C&R their share. The verbage is if the other party lacks the infrastructure for the harvest. Since we don't have a problem with that, it *must* be challenged in court.
     
  12. Benjy

    Benjy Active Member

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    So if I understand, we should all be reporting retention of our one allotted wild fish regardless of actually keeping said fish? That small act would skew the data and allow the tribes to harvest less? Lets start a movement. Guides could certainly explain the benefits to their sports and punch the cards for them. Every recreational fisherman in the state who buys the card could punch out on the Hoh regardless if they fished it or not.
     
  13. Jim Kerr

    Jim Kerr Active Member

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    Hmmmm, its good to see everyone wants do do something, its not surprising folks are unclear on whats best. Many guides have been maxing out there native cards forever trying to skew the data, the creeling kind of balances it out, and only a percentage of the cards are checked any way. My feeling here is that most of the data we have on these systems is so bad that it can't even be called "science'. I have decided not to contribute to more bad data so I just tell the truth to the State and let the chips fall where they may.
    As for the Hoh netters, say what you will but they have shown incredible improvement over the last few years on their adherence to fishing days and their willingness to work around sport anglers, I am not saying its a good thing but as a guy who has to work with them every day I have to give them some props for their improvement.
    I have observed a big difference in fish behavior in the Hoh when boats are not present, and I believe you could probably establish a "no fishing from boats zone" without pissing off too many locals if you were willing to compromise a bit, it would probably save a few fish.
    But you WOULD have to compromise, and help out local businesses with some incentives. It would be worth trying simply as an exercise in cooperation if nothing else.( we are going to need some team building if we are going to make any progress)
    As far as the crowding issue, there have been tons of fish the last few years and epic fishing weather, ask any guide anywhere what the biggest cause of crowding is and he or she will tell you, GREAT FISHING. For those of you who have not been fishing the hoh very long trust me, it will suck again soon no matter what we do, and after a few shitty seasons almost everyone will go home.
    Don't get me wrong, I think there is a lot to do and I think everyone should make an effort to make positive changes and I applaud everyone who is doing so.
     
  14. bhudda

    bhudda heffe'

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    I don't know anyone who owns a boat myself included that wants no fishing from water craft.....bunch wussies!!! Stop crying.....
     
  15. sleestak240

    sleestak240 Active Member

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    Bhudda, I own a boat...and I like the idea and think it would be beneficial in certain areas on the Sol Duc and Hoh. We're not talking about a blanket closure. A guide who has spent countless days on the rivers of the OP has said it might prove to be beneficial (although certainly not the answer to all of our woes). What's your beef against the concept bhudda?
     
  16. bhudda

    bhudda heffe'

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    The concept itself!! You gonna give up driving because of better air quality? Air is important ya? No?...or just on certain hwy's???....my opinion is people who really are catching lots of fish think conservatively for fish,people who done catch fish wanna cock block everyone who is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!period.......
     
  17. sleestak240

    sleestak240 Active Member

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    I think my reading comprehension skills can interpret your mangled statement here.

    I can assure you that isn't the case, advocates of this idea catch plenty of steelhead from these rivers (both from boats and on foot). We're considering ways to reduce the impact of displaced pressure on the fisheries of the OP...not "cock block" other fisherman. But now I think I'll term this the "bhudda cock block concept" since you've presented it as such.

    If you we're so confident in your ability to catch steelhead you wouldn't have to try and puff up your chest on the internet and offend people who are trying to enact change. Stand up and pat yourself on the back...we're all in awe of your prowess. Clearly the concept behind this is beyond you.
     
  18. Dan Page

    Dan Page Active Member

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    So what would be a reasonable proposal for no fishing from boats on the Hoh?
    It's of course gonna upset gear fishermen more than fly guys.
    If I had my way I'd institute no fishing from boats seasonally on certian sections on several rivers. Also ban motors in more places.------ All just a spey guy's prejudiced desires.
    If there is to be any quality in the fishing experience on these rivers something will have to be done. Without some measure there will be (already is) a natural selection for fishermen that like or can tolerate crowded conditions. Also, once gear fishermen take over a section of river, forget about swinging flies. (Not bashing gear fishermen, but fly guys are left out when conditions reach that proportion). I think many gear fishermen would actually go for some kind of measure to thin out the herd.
    I'm assuming letters to the Commission would be the appropriate starting point?
     
  19. bhudda

    bhudda heffe'

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    Sleestak,you don't catch alot fish huh:) figures...goodluck in your fight,you'll need it.
     
  20. Benjy

    Benjy Active Member

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    They are already incentivized by there being good fishing. Poor fishing = empty rooms in Forks, guides sitting at home, no one in the cafes.... The vampire thing isn't going to last forever, the runs of fish could. I guarantee that the sport fishery realizes more real dollars into the hands of more people than anything else in Forks.
     

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