Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by theonethatgotaway, Jan 11, 2012.

  1. Chris Bellows The Thought Train

    Posts: 1,627
    The Salt
    Ratings: +753 / 0
  2. Ryan Nathe Member

    Posts: 836
    Seattle, WA
    Ratings: +7 / 0

    I own a drift boat and would support a no fishing from a boat ban. look at the Deschutes, yes it is crowded, but it isnt insane and their is little if any conflict between gear and fly anglers. And the fish have plenty of places to hide and get some rest.
  3. gt Active Member

    Posts: 2,616
    sequim, WA
    Ratings: +6 / 0
    sanctuary water is an important management tool. it works quite well on the sandy and deschutes in oregon. no back drifting, no sideplaning, get out of the boat and fish. with water unreachable, the fish have a chance to rest and recover. unfortunately, the mind set in WA seems to be focused on 'i want my quota when i want it' and screw everything else. it is evident from this discussion as well as discusions on BB more oriented toward gear fishing. conservation is a topic with a limited audience but when the runs eventually collapse, these are the same folks who will be screaming about increasing hatchery releases.

    and for the record, as there seems to be some confusion regarding WDFW and the CRCs, our catch records are not used, period, in their determination of seasons or harvest quotas.

    we had a presentation by the puget sound salmon managers a couple of years back and i was astonished to find this to be the case. i wrote 4 statistical questions which i asked them to respond too. it took about 2 weeks but they provided written answers to my questions. the debate which followed lasted about 3 weeks and by the time i called an end to the circular arguements, the distribution list has swelled to about 70 people including the commissioners.

    the bottom line is WDFW adopted a statistical procedure first published in 1972. in examining the premise of this statistical treatment of data, i questioned the validity of conclusions which would be forthcoming. in this sort of 'model' environment, the scientific thing to have done would have been to summarize the CRC data and then contrast that actual data with what the model predicts. given that simple step, you would then have a foundation with regard to how valid the model predictions might be.

    unfortunately, WDFW simply accepts what the model predicts. they contrast that with creel surveys, when is the last time you were stopped and asked, and follow that up with a random telephone survey. in 1985 WDFW and the NWIFC published a paper regarding telephone surveys and concluded that the data was skewed at least 45%, in other words asking anglers is a totally unreliable source of infomation, fishermen lie.

    that is how the seasons, escapements and quotas are currently set. unreliable, of questinable validity, statistical treatment of smoke and mirrors. of course the projections continue to be quite cheerie which keeps the indians and commercials happy. oh, halibut is done the same way.
  4. freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Posts: 3,967
    Edgewood, WA
    Ratings: +706 / 1
    HOH,,, I dunno guy's. There is nothing that says fishing like a 24 foot Duckworth running full tilt up the river, in marginal visibility, with 8 Bubba's -- back bouncer rigs at the ready ;)
  5. Josh dead in the water

    Posts: 2,936
    NW Washington
    Ratings: +496 / 2
    Love it. If it weren't involved with such a sad topic, that would be hilarious.
  6. Bob Triggs Your Preferred Olympic Peninsula Fly Fishing Guide

    Posts: 3,979
    Olympic Peninsula
    Ratings: +646 / 0
    With escapements having failed so many times over the past decade, and spawner counts well below single digit percentages of historic abundance, we may already have gone way too far for the wild fish of the Hoh, much less the Olympic Peninsula and the northwest coastal rivers in general.

    To ban fishing from boats or floating devices underway, in the entire river, would be a minimal step. Going to 100% catch and release and shortening the season to half of the days now being fished would also be a good beginning. Scentless artificial single barbless hook etc, for the entire river would be another good step. Where we are today is the result of decades of "compromise" on behalf of business and commerce. How has it worked out so far? How has that worked out for the Puget Sound rivers?

    Please stop wading and dragging anchors on the redds!
  7. Richard Torres Active Member

    Posts: 1,350
    Mill Creek
    Ratings: +76 / 0

    GT your comment does not surprise me.

    In other words punch cards are merely used as a physical reminder for us to be "honest"?? :beathead:

    Again, in other words another waste of taxpayer's dollars (paper wasted, ink, disposal of paper waste after it's sent in, etc., etc.) when instead the monies could be used for more constructive purposes within WDFW?

    Can anyone else bring validity to what GT said?
  8. Dan Page Active Member

    Posts: 439
    Yelm, Wa., USA.
    Ratings: +31 / 0
    Looks obvious to me this community will never get it together to make anything beneficial happen.
    Every thread turns to shit. And so will the resource.
  9. gt Active Member

    Posts: 2,616
    sequim, WA
    Ratings: +6 / 0
    what WDFW will tell you is that they can't get a sufficient return of the CRCs so they stopped using them. when i asked why they didn't institute an online reporting system ala the crab catch cards along with a financial penalty, '...good idea...' was the response but they would have to ask the legislature for authority. so they continue the use of a totally flawed statistical model which has never been tested for its validity.
  10. Charles Sullivan dreaming through the come down

    Posts: 2,288
    bellingham wa
    Ratings: +541 / 0

    I would be fine with closing sections of the river as was done on the Skagit wwhen we had C&R seasons. It certainly would alienate gear anglers if we singled out boat fishing as conservation tool. It would make it more difficult to get them on board when and if we tackle what I see as more important issues.

    Go Red Sox,
  11. Brazda Fly Fishing guide "The Bogy House" Lodge

    Posts: 428
    Ellensburg, Washington
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    This has a huge potential to kill a lot of spawned eggs, the wrong step or anchor placement could rip through a redd and do some damage, especially fresh redds luckily they are the easiest to see, once they flatten out and tighten up the damage potential is way less but still possable. As fishing guides I am sure You have pointed them out hundreds of times in the attempt to keep anglers off them. Same as boats you just have to be observant of them and of coarse do not anchor in spawning areas. Fortunatly for the Hoh there is a lot of spawning going on above in the park where the boat traffic is nill. Luckily the peak of spawn is the first week of May a solid two or three weeks after river closure, I believe this is completely natural and earlier spawning is simply the example of diversity in the species. I know in the early years of steelhead angling the season did not even open till April, sport fishing in winter was nearly non existant.
  12. gldntrt40 Member

    Posts: 178
    UFO over the city
    Ratings: +2 / 0
    Just in IMHO folks. I will put this right out front, I don't and will never hunt but there is not a "better" -in the proactive sense of the word, group that puts money where their mouth is than Ducks Unlimited. They get Millions $ together and get things done. It makes me jealous as I am a bird watching nerd..yep, and my birding clan complain and claim conservation and don't put a cent into anything and us here, flyfisherman, we are not quite homogeneous enough to get something going. Boaters versus waders etc.. Plus, it's hard to buy rivers these days.

    It is hard geographically when we are talking rivers and watersheds where the fish live alot of the time...where as hunters can buy up a bunch of fields
    and make projects that sort of serve a larger cross section of nature year round that also happen to be good for blasting waterfowl for 3 + months a year.
    The Nisqually project is pretty cool and Ducks Unlimited funded alot of it and it is partially self-serving as they can hunt seasonally on parts of the refuge edge but...the Audubon
    Society didn't lift a finger to my knowledge. Anyone correct me if I am wrong and apologize beforehand if my information is wrong.

    I hope we can get some situation where we can all find a worthy cause to chip in some $ and roll up our shirt sleeves and get some sort of project worthy and we can start the ball rolling with something that helps the cause of growing some stocks back where our grandkids and beyond can read about something good our generation did to reverse the fishes plight.
    The Elwha might be a start. Better than nothing and worth the effort.