How far?

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by KerryS, Dec 22, 2011.

  1. KerryS Ignored Member

    Posts: 6,712
    Sedro Woolley, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +1,753 / 0
    See that steelhead that just broke the surface sixty feet out and 15 feet downstream? How far are you going to have to cast to put the fly right on his nose if the depth of the river is six feet and the current is perfect steelhead holding speed, aka; walking speed? Seventy feet? Eighty? Or the fabled hundred foot cast?

    Some engineer will come up with a schematics for this I am sure. Good luck with that. I didn't mention what tip is used nor if the fly is wieghted or not, lightly dressed, heavy wire hook or light. Give your best guess given your experience in such a situation.
  2. bitterroot Love vintage graphite!

    Posts: 1,428
    Montana
    Ratings: +214 / 1
    Pythagorean Theorem.

    What is the hypotenuse of a traingle with one side 60' and one side 15'? 61.85'

    Of course, this would not account for belly in the line, but it would be the absolute minimum distance needed.

    Personally, I would make repetitive 120' casts while stepping upstream until I got the drift directly over the fish. :rofl: :rofl:
  3. Luke77 I hope she likes whitefish

    Posts: 1,515
    Yakima, WA
    Ratings: +311 / 0
    Step upstream 5 feet. Cast 60 feet out and slip another 15 feet of running line to drop the fly once it hits the water. Hold 1 foot for the loop and hold on tight.

    At least that's what I'd do, but I'd probably spook the fish by screaming at my buddies that I just saw a steelhead sipping dries. :D
  4. KerryS Ignored Member

    Posts: 6,712
    Sedro Woolley, WA, USA.
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    You didn't allow for the 6 feet of water depth. I know it can be figured out mathmatically but how would you really go about getting to this fish. Or do you think the guy behind you is more likely to hook up?
  5. bitterroot Love vintage graphite!

    Posts: 1,428
    Montana
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    Assuming that the fish is breaking the surface 60' out and 15' downstream, would it matter how deep the river is?
  6. KerryS Ignored Member

    Posts: 6,712
    Sedro Woolley, WA, USA.
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    I dunno. Lets say this is a winter fish, why did it break the surface in the first place? I would think it is holding on the bottom like most steelhead and for some unknown reason hit the surface then returned to its hold or perhaps it hit the surface in preperation to move into a different run. If that is the case no cast is likely to get it. Opinion based on my experience with winter fish.
  7. bitterroot Love vintage graphite!

    Posts: 1,428
    Montana
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    I don't fish for steelhead...the math is too complicated!:rofl:

    But, if it's breaking the surface 60' out and 15' downstream, I'm gonna assume it's taking bugs on the surface at that location. With that said, I don't care where or how deep it is holding. I just want my drift to be on the surface where I saw the fish rise.
  8. KerryS Ignored Member

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    Sedro Woolley, WA, USA.
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    You won't catch any steelhead with thinking like that and my original post stated this is about fishing for steelhead.
  9. Brady Burmeister Active Member

    Posts: 554
    OH
    Ratings: +134 / 0
    I would not attempt to hit him on the nose with the first cast and run the risk of spooking him with the line. When I see a boil I like to assume it may have moved upstream a bit. I would start with a 60 ft. cast, and add 2-3 ft. with each successive cast, making depth adjustments by varying the upstream angle of the cast to let it set up. I think with a pretty hard upstream angle, an upstream mend or 2, you can be fishing at 6 ft. by the time the fly is 15 ft. downstream with a walking speed current.
  10. bitterroot Love vintage graphite!

    Posts: 1,428
    Montana
    Ratings: +214 / 1
    Exactly! :rofl:
  11. Brady Burmeister Active Member

    Posts: 554
    OH
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    But yeah, if taking a few steps upstream is an option, I would definitely do that too.
  12. Salmo_g Active Member

    Posts: 7,476
    Your City ,State
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    If the fish is 60' out and 15' downstream, I am already swinging below the fish's holding position most likely. First thing I do is back up 75' or more and begin casting with 75' of line. I want to swing completely in front of the fish, from far side to near side to give it the maximum view of my fly. Then I step 2 or 3' downstream with each cast and hookup when I get close enough. I've done this a few times.

    Sg
  13. gbeeman Active Member

    Posts: 343
    Kennewick WA
    Ratings: +35 / 0
    If he's 60 feet away, 15 feet out, and 6 feet down. He just a bit over 62 feet from you. I like the idea of stepping up and working the fly down to the fish.

    GBeeman
  14. Greg Holt Active Member

    Posts: 154
    camano island, wa.
    Ratings: +54 / 0
    First you must establish your pivot point--Above your reel, below it, somewhere imaginary?

    By the time you confer with Mark Yuhina and work out all the math and physics, tangents, vectors, center of mass index of the fish, current speed, weather and barometric influences, blah, blah, blah, the fish in question has successfully spawned and is now moving in a downstream orientation in a totally different part of the river...

    Burmeister mentioned not spooking the fish. My experiences concur with that strategy. Thus, I too move upstream sufficiently, but with the added caveat of working the fish from the bottom up, avoiding lining him/her. My success rate with that procedure is about one in one hundred, which I figure is still about ten times better than the cast/player ratio over blind cast and swing. You said it yourself, showing fish are often not position players nor aggressive. Sucks, don't it?
  15. Jeff Sawyer Active Member

    Posts: 441
    Tacoma WA
    Ratings: +240 / 0
    iagree

    15ft is too close. When I thought I was far enough, I'd go up another 10 feet or so just for good measure. First pass I'd try a lighter unweighted fly (winter or not I saw him taking something off the surface right?) I would sweep that area 20 feet or so past where I saw the swirl. Then I'd go back and do the same thing with a heaver fly. Then I would have a swig from the flask and maybe try some Ed Ward cast up stream feeding line changing flies, when I had exhausted everything I could imagine that might make this creature take my fly. I'd call my buddies over getting them to cast at him, and eventually move to the next hole or water that looked promising. Because that's what steelhead do to me, he really wasn't rising after anything, fish don't have hands that was just his way of flipping me off; if he had little fish trousers he'd probably moon me. Why do I love this shit so much?
  16. g_smolt Recreational User

    Posts: 916
    58°19'59 N, 134°29'49 W
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    I would walk back upstream about 50 feet, make sure my hotshot (#30, pirate) was set back about 25 ft from my side planer for the correct run/dive ratio, then I would work that bad larry back and forth through the lane the fish showed in.

    Seriously?

    I would ignore the riser and fish the same "comb the high percentage water" pattern I started with when I stepped in. If the fish didn't take, he didn't take.
  17. KerryS Ignored Member

    Posts: 6,712
    Sedro Woolley, WA, USA.
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    I think this is how I would play it also and hope my partner fishing behind me picked him up if possible.
  18. bennysbuddy the sultan of swing

    Posts: 2,271
    m-ville
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    For you Kerry the problem should be a no brainner, get your camera ready as WW will have this steelhead to the beach in less than five casts!!!
  19. Drifter Active Member

    Posts: 1,631
    Ratings: +638 / 2
    Hmmm i like this - for me the fish rolled because he/she was trying to kick sea lice off the its side - or there are two and they are fighting - smaller male and so on .

    it will take a 85 ft. cast quartered upstream on a floating line with 15 ft. leader - then i would throw a 10 foot circle loop as fast as i could over the tippet to help the weighted fly sink then start stripping line and mending like crazy to let it get down while it past right in front of me , then i would slowly start to feel the current against the line as it dead drifted past the fish at or near the bottom with no fly line under the water to spook the fish - just leader . it should dead drift right by it at 60 ft. 15 yards down stream if everything goes right . after a few of these dead drifts since it is 15 ft. down river and 60 ft. out i would try the rising fly ! same cast quartered upstream - mended for sinking and catching the dead drifted fly just before it gets to the fish and lift it while it is passing the holding area of the fish ! This is because i can not wade up river or change position - cliffs - drop offs - lazy .

    Of coarse i would have two rods be them spey or single handers - one for floating line and one for sinking - one would always being broken down in half and stuck in my belt for when ever i needed it .
  20. ralfish Active Member

    Posts: 291
    B.C.
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    Assuming you have fished your way down, and you are fishing an 80-100' cast, you have already covered the fish. My experience tells me to move on, but if no one is behind me, I'd probably go up 30 or so paces and cover the water again, after changing flies, as its been ignored once already. Depending on water conditions I'd probably go smaller and somber, unless thats what I was already fishing then I'd go bigger more flash and rip it by fast