How is the Sauk/Skagit this year?

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by MJGROTA, Dec 22, 2011.

  1. Salmo, I guess I would consider the rules change proposals and other suggestions submitted to WDFW by myself, WSC and hundreds of others over decades as "constructive alternatives."

    Ron's letter above (thanks for including) says WA fish are owned by the commercial fishing industry, with the tribes and Boldt responsible for any remaining problems. Maybe so. As I stated above, this does not appear to be the problem anywhere else. Possibly we are at the end of a long history of poor management decisions due to commercial dollars and tribal litigation. If this is the case, I suppose we'll just need to watch this play out to the bitter end.
  2. Count me as another person who found this thread very informative.
  3. for things to get better we will need an across the board REAL support at the state level. not just one or 2 folks who share our concern.
    the fact that netting is still going on tells us alot.
  4. Skyrise,

    If you've been reading this thread and others about steelhead management, you know that the state has zero to do with any netting of steelhead, right? Since I'm not sure I understand your post, what does the REAL support at the state level look like? Thanks for clarifying.

  5. So basically the WDFW is powerless except when it comes to regulating recreational fisherman and their seasons which in many cases have minimal impacts compared to other user groups and factors including habitat degradation and so on. In my mind co manager means that each co manager has an equal opportunity to have a say in the way something is managed. For instance when the tribes tell us, hey the recreational fisherman will not have a fishery this year in a certain area and the WDFW goes ok, yet the WDFW would never tell the tribes hey we have a low king run on the puyallup this year so you guys guys cant fish this year. Has never happened! The WDFW and the tribes are not co managers. The tribes, the federal government and to a lesser extent the WDFW manage our fisheries. Why don't they just shut down the WDFW let the feds close the rivers and let the tribes net the remaining salmon and steelhead and call it a day.

    I am really sorry for the negativity but it really seems hopeless.
  6. So beyond marine survival and a multitude of other factors placing huge pressure on steelhead populations, we have a convoluted and long history of actions that have relegated sport fishermen to the bottom of the priority list for who gets to go after the scraps. Would a state proposition on the ballot aiming to assert equal (at least) rights for sport fishers be the only path to correct (from our perspective) the current state of affairs? Or, if that even passed, would it simply be overturned in the courts?
  7. WDFW is in charge of sport fishing and cowboy nets. There are other things that they could do. They could ask to recieve and comment on SEPA. They actually do play a role in land use actions if woodpeckers or Eagles are involved. Listed steelhead? Nope!

    Go Sox,
  8. Jonathon,

    WDFW's main authority is the regulation of non-treaty commercial and recreational fishing. The state has no authority to restrict treaty Indian fishing except in the most extreme conservation instances or if a tribe or treaty Indian fishes or hunts outside adjudicated or otherwise acknowledged areas. WDFW has only the authority vested in the state hydraulics code with which to protect habitat. Beyond that it is WDOE or other agencies to protect habitat, with DOE often deferring to WDFW on stream flows and fish passage, but the authority does not reside with WDFW. Many times in the past when WDFW attempted to assert habitat protection, the party benefitting from environmental degradation lobbies their state legislative representative and or senator, and the Legislature has responded by limiting WDFW's environmental authority.


    It's been posted here a number of times that non-treaty fishing, especially in regards to anadromous fish, is subordinant to treaty fishing. Non-treaty commercial and recreational fishing have relative parity in the ocean and lower Columbia River. In Puget Sound, recreational fishing has priority over commercial fishing for chinook and coho, but commercial fishing has priority for pink and chum and sockeye. In freshwater, it's all recreational for non-treaty, excepting the LCR.

    A state ballot measure holds no weight in federal court, where treaty fishing has already been adjudicated.

  9. Salmo_g thanks for some specific info on some of the many problems that WDFW face. That being said it seems extremely improbable that all of these different user groups and entities will agree on anything when it comes to the management of our fisheries. The fate of our salmon and steelhead in Puget Sound seem extremely hopeless.

    Also it makes it hard for the general public to attend meetings in regards to fishing and hunting seasons and regulations when they are during the week in the middle of the day.
  10. There is opportunity this Saturday

    Preliminary AGENDA*
    Download PDF version

    January 6-7, 2012
    Natural Resources Building
    First Floor, Room 172
    1111 Washington St SE
    Olympia, Washington 98501

    *Agenda is subject to change.

    FRIDAY, JANUARY 6, 2012

    8:30 A.M.
    1. Executive Session
    Pursuant to RCW 42.30.110(1)(i), the Commission will meet in executive session to discuss with legal counsel representing the agency litigation or potential litigation to which the agency is, or is likely to become, a party. No action will be taken in executive session, and the public is not permitted to attend the executive session.

    9:30 A.M.
    2. Call to Order
    Approval of Minutes
    Commissioners' Discussion
    Director's Report (Joe Stohr)
    Budget & Operations Update (Joe Stohr)
    3. How the Department of Fish and Wildlife Delivers the Priority Habitats and Species Program to our Stakeholders – Briefing
    Provide an overview of the program tools and how they are used to make land management decisions that protect fish, wildlife and their habitats.

    Staff Report:
    Katie Knight

    12:00 P.M.
    1:00 P.M.
    4. Open Public Input
    The Commission is a direct link between citizens of Washington and the Department of Fish and Wildlife.* Comments on Department programs and topics of concern are welcome during this portion of the meeting. NOTE: During this portion of the meeting, the public is encouraged to comment on issues that are not on the agenda for decision action.



    5. Multiple Season Big Game Permits – Rule Briefing, Public Hearing & Rule Action
    Department staff will brief the Commission on the proposed amendments to WAC 232-28-294 Multiple Season Big Game Permits.

    Staff: Dave Ware, Game Division Manager, Wildlife Program

    PUBLIC INPUT (This item only)
    6. 2011 Lands 20/20* Acquisition Process – Briefing
    Department staff will request that the Commission review of the list of projects approved through the 2011 Lands 20/20; the Department will seek funding for projects approved in the Lands 20/20 process.

    Dave Brittell, Special Assistant, Director’s Office

    7. Wildlife Program Overview – Briefing
    At the request of the Commission, Department staff will brief the Commission with a summary of the organizational structure, staff positions and expertise, budget sources, and wildlife conservation and management priorities.

    Nate Pamplin, Assistant Director, Wildlife Program

    8. Joint Law-Enforcement Agreements – Briefing
    Department staff will provide the Commission with an overview of joint law enforcement agreements between the Department’s Fish and Wildlife Enforcement Program and other agencies for the protection of natural resources. This presentation will describe the terms, conditions, budget, performance and impacts of these agreements.

    Bruce Bjork, Chief, Enforcement Program and Mike Cenci, Deputy Chief, Enforcement Program

    9. Review of Lower Columbia Sturgeon Management Policy C-3001 – Briefing
    Department staff to provide the annual review to the Commission on the Columbia River white sturgeon.

    Guy Norman, Region 5 Director and Pat Frazier, Region 5 Fish Program Manager

    4:50 P.M.

    10. Sportfishing Regulations* - Briefing/Public Hearing
    Department staff to brief the Commission and receive public testimony for the proposed 2012 -2013 sportfishing season rules and regulations to ensure conservation of the fish and shellfish resource, and provide sustainable recreational fishing opportunities.

    Craig Burley, Fish Management Division Manager, Fish Program

    PUBLIC INPUT (This item only)
    11. Open Public Input
    The Commission is a direct link between citizens of Washington and the Department of Fish and Wildlife.* Comments on Department programs and topics of concern are welcome during this portion of the meeting. NOTE: During this portion of the meeting, the public is encouraged to comment on issues that are not on the agenda for decision action.


    A.M. 12. Miscellaneous and Meeting Debrief
    The Commission will discuss items that arise immediately before or during the meeting and after the preliminary agenda is published.
    A.M. 13. Commission Committee Reports
    The Commissioners will discuss recent activities of the various Commission committees.
    A.M. 14. Summary Commission Requests:
    The Commission and Director will discuss and make updates to the current list of Commission requests to the Department and may consider new requests.
    12:25 P.M.
    *Agenda is subject to change.

    Directions and Access to the Natural Resources Building: From I-5, take State Capitol exit (105). The exit puts you on 14th Avenue. Go through the tunnel and turn right onto Capitol Way. Turn right onto 11th Avenue. Turn right onto Washington. Turn left into the parking lot. Visitor parking is on the P-1 level of the building.

    Public access to the Natural Resources Building after 5:00 p.m. and on Saturday will be available only through the rotunda doors located on the west end of the building.

    Contact the Fish and Wildlife Commission Office for further information:
    Phone (360) 902-2267
  11. Wow. great thread, lots to digest here. Thank you all for your insights into this increasingly complicated and frustrating situation.
  12. Just to emphasize Salmo-g's point about priorities for different species: inland waters sport catch salt and fresh on chinook last year was over 49,000 and over 42,000 for coho. The all citizen commercial catch was 7,600 and 16,800 respectively. The all citizen commercial fisheries have very little effect on native steelhead.

Share This Page