How to (not to) piss off someone steelhead fishing

Discussion in 'Steelhead' started by ChrisC, Nov 30, 2009.

  1. ChrisC

    ChrisC Member

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  2. Old Man

    Old Man Just an Old Man

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    You and I might do this, but not everybody dies this. Some feel that when they are there first it is their's and theirs alone and anybody else can go to hell.

    I've run across a few like that when fishing in Washington.
     
  3. Mark Moore

    Mark Moore Just a Member

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    I like that except for one thing...he doesn't tell me what caliber to use for the jerk bait fisherman that floated right through the sweet spot in the run I was working this morning, fishing the whole freakin' time, and never said a word to me. It might be a long winter.
     
  4. Split Bamboo

    Split Bamboo Member

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    How about a three inch potato cannon loaded with a spawned out salmon carcass?
     
  5. Matthew Gulbranson

    Matthew Gulbranson Resident Swinger

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    iagree That's good for starters!! That kind of stuff drives me nuts.
     
  6. Mark Moore

    Mark Moore Just a Member

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    You mean like the ones my dog was rollin' in today? Had to spend $16 to get him a bath after fishing because when he does that my wife won't let me bring home and give him a bath . And I lost a sink tip and leader when the loop on my fly line failed....

    MAN DO I LOVE WINTER STEELHEADING!:beer1:
     
  7. Split Bamboo

    Split Bamboo Member

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    Mark, I rolled in one once, stupid bear hauled a king up a trail, dropped it on the downhill side of a big tree you had to climb over. I stepped in it and slid down the hill, sliming myself something fierce. I was dry heaving I stunk so bad. I had to lay down in a little back eddy scrubbing myself down with sand and gravel. With a trace of snow on the ground, it was a cold start to the day. But the fishing karma was on my side for the rest of the day....a VERY good day.
     
  8. Mark Moore

    Mark Moore Just a Member

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    Maybe I should try that....
     
  9. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

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    That does not sound like the luck of the Irish. Silver lining, you got out!
     
  10. Greg Price

    Greg Price Love da little fishies

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    The rotation method sounds great.

    Have anyone experienced this rotation method at a State of Washington river?

    If so, please tell me about it.

    I fly fish for trout in the summer, so my fly fishing never includes fishing shoulder to shoulder with other fellow fly fishermen.

    I have experienced first hand in the combat steelhead or salmon holes at Blue Creek, Reiter ponds, Tokul Creek and Puyallup River. Most of these holes require tossing corkies and yarn. Don't snicker; shoulder to shoulder drift fishing is a fun way to fish if you are good natured and tolerant. thumb:

    I have found very simple rules for drift fishing in a combat fishery.
    1. Always ask before taking a spot.
    2. If new to the fishery, ask what the etiquette is.
    3. When drift fishing shoulder to shoulder, cast after the person downstream of you casts.
    4. Expect tangles and display a huge dose of patience when tangled.
    5. Reel up when someone is landing a fish, use the time to chit chat with the person beside you.
    6. Always use the same method of fishing as the majority. Try to match the weight of line, amount of lead and terminal tackle so it drifts at the same rate as those fishing in near you.

    I would love to try the rotation method some time if I could find a local river where it is practiced.
     
  11. gearhead

    gearhead Active Member

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    Still don't understand the logic or should i say the entitlement that some have, seeming to think they have the right to your rock, when your standing on it, thinking they own the river and feel they can walk right on down thru you, and having the nerve at that, to call you names for not stepping aside. i understand well established rotation methods at crowded popular runs, such as the Ronde mouth, but i do not believe this ass logic should be tolerated everywhere. twice this last weekend on the Met river, at a long run all bymyself, i had fellow flyrodders, show an hour or two after my arrival, work their way down the run, maybe 300 yards, and then yell at me for one: not moving, and two, for low holing.
    so i disagree, let the swingers swing, just as long as they swing around me and stf up while doing so, really getting sick of elitist asses out there. vent over!
     
  12. steelydan

    steelydan Newb seeking wisdom

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    Greg,
    This is exactly how I learned to fish.
    Maybe the gear guys know something?
    Thanks for posting.
     
  13. pmjasper

    pmjasper Member

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    I fish in the midwest on some very crowded spots and if I see someone fishing a run (they are much, MUCH smaller here) I keep walking. I never thought it was right to crowd someone, period and especially if they arrived at the spot bright and early and obviously before you did. If you've been fishing for any amount of time, you know that safe distance where you can enter above or below without disturbing the other angler. If you feel TOO uncomfortable fihsing closely to another angler....you probably ARE too close.

    Now for my East Coast take, with drastically disagrees with what has been posted previously... I grew up in NJ, one of the most crowded states for its size and the unwritten rule there was, you wake up early, you get to a good hole and that hole is yours until you are ready to leave, regardless of how many fish you catch. Now you would always have guys trying to crowd the hole you were in from the early a.m. (esp. when you caught a few fish in front of them), but THEY would be the ones considered doing the wrong thing, not the guy who stayed in the hole catching fish. This really occured during stocked trout season in which everyone who owned a fishing rod of some type would be out trying to catch a trout.

    Now me, I can definitely relate to GearHead where he woke up early enough to get access to a good run and all of the sudden a few guys who ate a hearty breakfast and slept in come down and figure it's time for him to move because they arrived. To me that's just not cool. If I'm the late guy to the hole I look upstream or downstream for another likely holding area, not crowd the guy who is already there.

    Lastly, as far as the rotation method, I have seen it done to some extent on the Salmon River in NY but there was always a few guys in the rotation that had to be strongly reminded it was time for them to move down. Fairly easy when 20 other guys are ready to beat the crap outta you for not moving.

    Basically, no spot is worth getting into an altercation on the river, especially now a days with all the crazies out there. The best line of the whole article is , "Treat others as you would like to be treated" and "Show respect for others". by doing that we all can enjoy our time on the water a little more.
     
  14. Erik F. Helm

    Erik F. Helm Frozen in the river, speyrod in hand

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    Glad to see somebody found the article and that it is spurring some thought.

    Beat rotation originated in then U.K. in order to address pressure and crowding on salmon rivers. It is used here as well and is enforced on the atlantic salmon rivers in the NorthEast.

    It is limited to swinging or drifting in rivers. Gear guys, fly guys, bait guys, etc. can all fish a run and have a fair chance if it is observed. Anchoring defeats the purpose.

    And, as with everything else, everyone interprets 'The Rules' differently. A common reaction is "Nobody is gonna tell me how to fish."

    Regardless of whether it catches on or not (and it is practiced in the Sauk-Skagit system a bit) the important thing to remember is to always ask "Hi! Are you moving down river?" "Mind if I fish behind you?" Etc. That tends to prevent combat fishing or misunderstanding.

    For those areas in the east that are super crowded with 50 people fishing in a bucket, well, rotation is useless, and other sets of courtesy apply I expect.

    All in all, it is just one method for Steelhead and Salmon fishermen and women to get along and enjoy a day on the river.:)
     
  15. pmjasper

    pmjasper Member

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    Well stated Erik.

    We must remember that the majority of us are out fishing for the sheer enjoyment of the sport. Why else would we be out there in these crazy temps and whatnot??? Most of the time, if I get a few steelhead or migratory trout, that's a wonderful added bonus but just being out there is the real treat for me. The last thing I want to do out there is spoil my time, or the time of someone else, by not showing common courtesy. I think you will find that is true with most of the fishermen out there who truly love the sport.

    Best wishes to all during this holiday season and good fishing!
     
  16. jcnewbie

    jcnewbie Member

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    “If only common sense & courtesy were commonplace…..”

    I guess I’ve been fortunate for the most part in that I have witnessed very few incidents so many others speak of in my short career fly fishing…only a little over 3 years.

    It may have as much to do with my physical limitations and unwillingness to engage in a fight anymore as anything else, but…..I studiously avoid fishing where there is any sign of “combat fishing” occurring and the resultant mess of debris, garbage & human excrement strewn about, (the Puyallup, ie.).

    The only place that is still easily accessible to me that I’ve tried so far is the Flaming Geyser area on the Green River (the small beach just below the RC field). While not normally crowded it can get busy at times – it does get combative during the Chum run last year and the Pink run this year so I avoid fishing there during those times. I will sometimes just observe and/or take some pictures but usually do not fish because I do not wish to be associated in my mind, or anyone else’s mind for that matter, with the mayhem and disrespect for others AND the fish that occurs. Old fashioned as hell I suppose.

    My fishing skills and knowledge are crude and in the very early stages although my life is closer to the end stages and I don’t wish to muddy it up with negative or destructive emotions towards others – so I avoid situations that piss me off….as much as possible.

    This is all leading up to the following acknowledgement: The last few times in particular that I’ve been to that spot, I’ve had numerous gear fishermen (the scourge of the planet, hehe!) come down to the waters edge and politely ask me if it’s okay to fish there….either above or below me. I always say, “sure” and/or, “of course, and thank you for asking!” Not all ask of course but are usually 5-10 yards away and no threat to my exclusive rights to catch fish anyhow. That’s a joke….as I rarely catch fish anyway and am just there for the casting practice (somewhat obviously, I might add). I just recently learned on this forum that one is supposed to cast, step, cast, step and so forth until you’re clear of the “run.” I had thought this technique or method was for Spey casters only. I usually only move up or down maybe 10-20 feet in an hour or so (unless it’s more wadeable), not realizing I may be “hogging” a run, a hole….or somebody else’s opportunity! Now that I’m aware I’ll try to move more often.

    My worst bad experiences fishing were all at Dash Point Beach/Pier two years ago during the Pink run and again this year when I just went to take a look at the beginning of the season & decided it wasn’t for me. I will say that the vast majority of the fishermen there were respectful of one another – but there are always those few that give us all a bad rap. I really felt bad for the residents along the beach that had to put up with all the trash in the parking lot, the yelling, noise and profanity from 5:00 AM onward throughout the day. Maybe the price you pay for nostalgic “public beach front housing”,…..seems a bit steep tho!

    As I said, I am still learning and have far to go….very far in fact!

    Regards,

    Jc
     
  17. floatinghat

    floatinghat Member

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    IMO, if you got there first and you are fishing on one rock you can have that rock. I will first ask if I can fish down to your location. I'll get out when my fly is swinging close and ask about fishing below you a good distance. I would expect you not to free line a couple hundred ft of line in to a drift to be an ass and I won't start 20ft below you. We all share the river, it not my or your rock, it's ours.

    If a run isn't big enough for rotation angling I'll ask you if you are working you way thru, if not I go elsewhere.
     
  18. Finfollower

    Finfollower New Member

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    I have to jump in on this thread.

    I have been a gear guy for quite a while, and am making the transition to fly's. With the past experience I have observed the skok this year and to be blunt I have never seen such a perversion of fishing etiquette, or morality. Within 5 minutes of being there I had to leave. I'm not afraid of a fight, but there were just too many people to fight. :(

    I believe there is karma that come with good practices. Last year while fishing a spot on a local river I observed a couple of older fly guys with mobility limitations. I saw where they were fishing was relatively a dead spot, but they were taking pains not to be rude and crowd me. I had already caught and released a small native in my tailout I was at, and saw them headed my way. Out of curiousity and decency I offered them my spot. We talked for a bit about the spot, the way it laid, and where I had hooked up. On cue to prove I did not know what I was talking about a fish jumped in another spot. :beathead: Long story shot. They accepted my spot and began fishing. Shortly after, while I watched what they were doing, one made the call "Fish on"! It was a small native (bigger than the one I caught) and the guy was like a kid at Christmas. I tailed the fish for him and took a picture, then promptly released the fish. Come to find out that was his first Steelie for years on the fly. I still keep in contact and have fished with him a couple of times when the opportunity presents itself and yes now it's with a fly rod. I will never forget the expression he had when fighting that fish, or my own sense of happiness knowing that I was part of that.

    Guess my opinion on this is that there's enough river, the question then becomes are we practicing the behavior that makes us worthy of the river and the gifts it bears?

    Tight lines and best wishes to all those who do. I enjoy the stories yet to be told.
     
  19. Charles Sullivan

    Charles Sullivan dreaming through the come down

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    Swing and rotate. It just makes sense.

    I started flyfishing in upstate NY on a river entering lake Champlain. We fished October through May for landlocked atlantics. Fortunately the use of lead shot was illegal in the fall and all but useless in the spring. This kept everyone swinging, which in turn kept everyone in rotation. Streamside conversations were generally pleasant and many flies were exchanged. Even the French were nice.

    When I moved to Syracuse NY, noone roatated. Everyone was nymphing. In my experience nymphers and gear fishermen seem less likely to rotate. Flyfishermen all seem to rotate. I moved out here to flyfish for steelhead and because I knew that pool rotation had long been the norm except that noone ever rotates through hatchery holes. I think that says a lot by itself.

    In Washington, people always rotate on the Skagit and the river to the north of it. Those are the rivers I fish most. This is mostly because nymphing the Skagit is a humorous thought, and spey rodders/ swingers are predominant.

    Anglers that are camped in a spot are irritating as are low holers and gear guys that throw lures at your feet. I've experienced all of them and realize that there is nothing that I can do about them. I do know that I won't join them in being rude to the other anglers. So now I generally just keep my mouth shut and move on.

    Pool rotation has long been the accepted practice amongst steelheaders. If you don't want to practice it, then please open your mouth and let those above you know that you aren't going to move. That's what I would do if I was breaking with common practice.

    Go Red Sox,
    cds
     
  20. ChrisC

    ChrisC Member

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    Thanks for posting this Greg. The swing, step or rotation method is prevalent among the bigger rivers like the Skagit and Sauk. If one were to "take a spot" and not budge at all at these rivers, you would end up pissing a lot of people who want to swing through run if you don't let them know that it's ok for them to swing around you. Hogging a spot in run that people typically swing through would be just as bad as one who swings through unannounced through a combat, shoulder to shoulder drift fishery where everyone has their spot marked. Much as you would want to go with the flow in a shoulder to shoulder situation drift fishing, it would be advisable to do the same in a rotation/swing fishery.
     

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