NFR How to prevent firearm based murder/s

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by dfl, Dec 16, 2012.

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  1. Kcahill Active Member

    Posts: 894
    Renton, WA
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    Things I would do to save people from themselves and others(and i carry everyday):

    1. Require a mental health check for any CPL in any state(it is truly unbelievable that not all states have this).
    2. Require a CPL and proof of ownership of a gun safe in the purchase of any semi auto firearm.
    3. Ban all cheeseburgers over 500 calories and limit to 1 per 6 hours.
    4. Ban all cars capable of over 70mph.
    5. Require any person more than 10 lbs overweight to exercise daily.
    6. Not allow the news and talking heads to sensationalize any shootings that do occur.
  2. ak_powder_monkey Proud to Be Alaskan

    Posts: 3,207
    Eagle River, Alaska
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    Either the second amendment allows for the regulation of arms or not, if the 2nd amendment is about people being able to revolt against the government. If it allows for the regulation of arms then everything should be on the table, if it doesn't everything should be legal, including tanks, nuclear weapons and machine guns.

    Its to damn easy to weapons capable of killing lots and lots of people. Its easier than buying a discover pass.
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  3. speyfisher Active Member

    Posts: 1,053
    State of Jefferson U.S.A.
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    Especially the parents. Two required! This current line of thought that single parenthood is a noble effort is BS! A kid needs two parents. Mother & Father. Best if one is there to get them up in the morning, see they have a good breakfast, and see them off to school, as well as be there for them when they get home from school! Difficult to achieve in this day & age.
  4. Brady Burmeister Active Member

    Posts: 543
    OH
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    If the NRA has you duped into thinking you and your friends should have AR-15s to protect yourself from the tyranny of the feds, then you're as crazy as David Koresh and your "militia" will be as successful as he was when the feds came to Waco. Carry a six gun on your hip and keep one under the mattress, but anything beyond that is for massacre or war. Slippery slope my ass.
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  5. speyfisher Active Member

    Posts: 1,053
    State of Jefferson U.S.A.
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    Contrary to popular belief, you can legally own a full auto machine gun. It's just so expensive, not only to buy, but for the permits. Plus it's a pain in the ass to jump through all the hoops. And part of that is you have to allow the BATFE to inspect your house any time they damn well please. Keep and bear tanks? Yeah right, in your garage, and tear up the streets driving them around town. Go down to Sportsman's Warehouse & buy 105mm cannon ammo. Naw,,,that's a bit much. Even for me. Hell, if you want to kill a lot of people, Timothy McVeah proved you could do it with common over the counter stuff.

    You may make the schools impenetrable, but how do you protect kids playing on the playground? Has anyone given serious thought to playground design? Nooooo. That would be too easy.
  6. Be Jofus G Banned or Parked

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    Washington
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    Actually nuclear weapons fall under other laws that make them illegal. It's actually quite interesting. The government limits the efficency percentage of any energy source built by the private sector. Splitting atoms is a very efficient way of generating energy so it is not legal to posess that technology. That is why "Atomic Bombs" are not on the list of types of weapons one can or can't own or produce.

    You can however own a tank, or fighter jet, or bomber, or submarine ect....ect... I actually know a guy who legally owns a couple tanks. To the best of my knowledge, he's never shot his mother in the face and executed kindergardners.
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  7. Brian Miller Be vewy vewy qwiet, I'm hunting Cutthwoat Twout

    Posts: 878
    WA
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    There have been some excellent points expressed in a terribly complex, many-faceted problem.
    They expressed thoughts about mental illness, an outstanding illustration of a change in American society and culture that Jim mentioned yesterday in the original tragedy thread, and the appropriateness and effectiveness of gun control as a solution.

    I lived with mental illness in the family. The effects will be with me until the day I die. It's too painful for me to watch a movie like One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest. I sat on a jury that involuntarily committed a young man who needed to be off the streets to prevent harm to himself and others. When I went home that night, I called my Mom and bawled my eyes out. Mental illness seems to be the unloved bastard stepchild of the medical community. There are widely known and embraced efforts to fund research to eradicate asthma, cancers, diabetes, heart disease, multiple sclerosis... But mental illness truly gets the short shrift.

    Back in the day I hunted upland game but the passion was lost when my beloved partner could no longer range for birds. Pehaps one day when I have more time the passion will return. I'm a CWP holder and I've participated ("competed" while technically correct would be a stretch) with my M1911 in IPSC matches but couldn't afford to keep up with the big dawgs who put thousands of rounds down range per month. I don't want the government to take away guns from law-abiding citizens.

    I was a Mountain Rescue team member for 15 years. I couldn't heal a patient's injuries. All I could do was try to deal with immediate life-threatening conditions (ABCs) and prepare them for transport to a trauma center where physicians had the resources and skills to heal them. In essence I provided a bandaid.

    Does America have a life threatening injury? Would additional controls on firearms; mandated background checks on assault weapons, training, buy-backs... help stabilize the patient until they can be healed? Talk to me, I'm listening.
    I wonder how many of these troubled kids were isolated, ridiculed, and bullied in school and their neighborhoods? I have a (now acutely painful) genetic hip problem (surgery next month) and couldn't walk without braces until I was 4 and was slow to attain normal physical coordination. It made me different from other kids and probably affected my self-image, but I lived with it. I was bullied until one day I had had enough, struck back, and the bullying stopped. Is allowing and encouraging physical resistance the solution? Or have changes in American society Jim illustrated so eloquently made the treatment potentially worse than the disease itself?

    Unfortunately I sadly recall a couple of other instances where I was a part of the crowd being entertained by someone else being bullied. Today, besides prayers offered up for healing in America, the church that I attend created and funds a nationally recognized anti-bullying program that has been adopted by local school districts to motivate students to change the way children view themselves and to become an encouragement to others. It's too early to say how far this type of program will go towards healing a sickend society, but at least it's doing something.
  8. Brady Burmeister Active Member

    Posts: 543
    OH
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    If you have enough focus and determination, you will always be able to come up with ways to kill people, but the nature of many mental illnesses thrive on sporadic, impulsive behavior. So the result is you see more mass killings with easy to access assault weapons than you do fertilizer bombs.
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  9. wadin' boot Donny, you're out of your element...

    Posts: 2,005
    Wallingford, WA
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    One other idea that hasn't been brought up, that might actually be useful...

    We probably all agree that child sexual molestation is abhorrent and child porn is on some version of that continuum. Law enforcement has been particularly pro-active in looking into those that are so inclined through internet surveillance. If online games and streaming data and texts are fuel for abhorrent and destructive behaviors, survey them remotely. As Jim Ficklin pointed out in another posting on the earlier thread, this isn't something done by 65 year olds...we're talking folks aged 15-45, men and boys, with passions for assault rifles and firearms...

    Build some feature detectors:

    if he's playing online games are they first person shooters?
    Is he playing alone without friends on the team?
    Does he sabotage his teammates?
    Are there frequent searches for weapons and weapons systems?

    (so far that's a vast cohort of boys aged 12-15)

    Are facebook or other postings frankly antisocial and hostile?
    Is firearm ownership registered to the home address?
    Is there a history of truancy or school suspensions?


    etc etc

    The beauty of the surveillance is that it could presumably also be retroactive. Who are these guys really? Are they guys that love and collect guns and who are responsible citizens. Or are they guys who see guns as a means to an end?

    I get the notion of online surveillance for most of us is repulsive, that it infringes on our freedoms etc, on the other hand, companies already know what I like to look up, who my friends are, and that data, my data, has been sold for their profit. Probably on some pro and con databases just for posting ideas on these debates...
  10. Be Jofus G Banned or Parked

    Posts: 2,051
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    I do not think encouraging physical resistance is the solution at all. I think discouraging it does more damage than good. Some kids will be bullies, some kids will be bullied, and most will be on both sides of the coin at some point in their lives. Untill recently, most children were able to sort this out themselvs without interferrence. That worked well. You can blow sunshine up a kids ass his entire life and all that will get you is an adult who does not posess the skillset to deal with adversity be it physical or mental. Or as my grandpap used to say....

    Never trust a man who's never been in a fist fight.
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  11. ak_powder_monkey Proud to Be Alaskan

    Posts: 3,207
    Eagle River, Alaska
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    So lets make it this hard to own any weapon who's primary purpose is killing people.
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  12. Kcahill Active Member

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    Renton, WA
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  13. Steve Saville Active Member

    Posts: 2,471
    Tacoma, WA
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    Text of the 2nd Amendment:

    A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

    It's pretty clearly stated. That's why the Supreme Court has shied away from changing it. They can't very well declare it unconstitutional now can they? It doesn't specify what type or for how long or anything else. The founding fathers meant it just as it is.

    Of course, it doesn't alter what has happened nor what might in the future. We just need to be more vigilant in our daily lives.
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  14. gearhead Active Member

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    Renton, wa
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    I think if the left stopped promoting and defending violence, that might be a start! atleast thats the whitetrash half of what my brain thinks. i think if the left would stop hiding behind the First Amendment, and stop promoting and defending certain video games which are really only mass killing simulators might help abit as well. one thing in common with all these young mass killers, is that they are and have all been addicted to the most violent of these games. i work for a school district, and we have a few technology teachers that hold meets with kids after hours in our tech labs to form virtual teams and engage in killing games.

    I have two questions....What can the Left do to reduce this risk? Is it even possible for the left to admit their part in these events?

    Just my white trash 2cents...
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  15. Jason Rolfe Wanderer

    Posts: 1,178
    the beach
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    It seems to me that if violent video games and movies were really the culprit, then we would see much more of this happening.

    There are literally MILLIONS of kids/people of all ages playing these games every day in the U.S. I play them occasionally myself. If the games were really the problem, somehow pushing these kids to commit these acts, then it seems to me that you would see more of these killings happening.

    Instead, you are drawing a correlation between something that millions enjoy, and trying to damn that thing because of a few bad people. But you get angry (and rightfully so) when someone suggests that guns should be controlled for everyone because of the choices of a few disturbed individuals.

    I don't think guns should be banned, but I think there should be a discussion about whether or not better regulations could help.

    I also don't think video games should be banned, but I do believe that the more violent games should not be sold to children, and that any parents letting children play games of this type should have frank discussions with their children about that fact that it is a game, and about the importance of respect for human life.
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  16. Jeff Sawyer Active Member

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    You saved me alot of typing this is damn near word for word what I was going to say.

    I would add that we also need to address the mental health issues...by all the reports I've heard this guy had lots of indicators that he might be troubled.

    Also I know they said this guy forced his way in to the school, but he looked like we weighed a buck 25 soaking wet. We might want to look at increasing security in our schools; I mean for christ sake I have to go through an ID check and two combination locks to get to my desk at work...I went to KFC in DC and the person behind the counter was behind bullet proof glass (no lie); maybe we should invest in increased security for our kids.
  17. SteveA Gnu to the board

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    Western WA
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  18. ak_powder_monkey Proud to Be Alaskan

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    Fine, I should be able to buy a RPG launcher, stinger missile, nuclear weapon or form and train a militia. I should be able to buy any arms.

    I think we can both agree that this is a bad idea, and the 2nd amendment does not say the type of arms. It also doesn't specify what arms means, and that whole part of the well regulated militia, what about that part.

    I think we can agree that violent fellons should not be allowed to keep and bear arms. Same with violent mentally ill people.

    I think we can also agree that the most powerful weapon when this amendment was written took 30 seconds to load.

    So there are two ways to interpret it, all or nothing. Either we can as a society limit what type of arms are allowed to be beared, and where those arms can be beared, or we cannot. The supreme court regularly has upheld the former, as firearms are not allowed in most public buildings, furthermore certain kinds of weapons are extremely restricted. (The first amendment has fallen to similar challenges most recently the "bong hits for jesus" case).

    What I don't understand is why the NRA is not at the forefront of responsible gun ownership.
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  19. Jeff Sawyer Active Member

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    “undoubtedly there are limits on the second amendment’s right to bear arms but these must be limitations that were viewed as reasonable at the time the U.S. Constitution was written." -- Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia

    And you don't get too much more conservative than this guy.

    Our founding fathers were insightful, but they didn't have a crystal ball. I think they hoped we'd be able to determine what is reasonable and govern ourselves wisely. I'm afraid we might be a huge disappointment to them is this regard.
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  20. Brady Burmeister Active Member

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    2nd Amendment zealots love being champions of the constitution in just one area. They never complain about the exceptions to the 1st amendment like the time, place, or manner restrictions. It is so often referred to as a protection from tyranny, it's original concept, but in this day and age it just serves as a protection from taking toys away from grown men. Toys capable of mass murder.
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