illegal float plane coho fishing?

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Jonathan Tachell, Aug 12, 2014.

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  1. PT

    PT Physhicist

    A Salmon Charter*license is required if you accept a fee to take a person fishing for salmon, food fish or shellfish in Marine Areas 1 through 13 (including 2-1 Willapa Bay, 2-2 Grays Harbor, 8-1 and 8-2), Lake Washington, or the Columbia River downstream of the Longview Bridge.

    This doesn't say anything about using a boat. Just accepting a fee for taking a person salmon fishing. Maybe they are only charging for the plane and lunch...
  2. Bob Triggs

    Bob Triggs Your Preferred Olympic Peninsula Fly Fishing Guide

    "Mad slanders on mad ears do fall" William Shakespeare

    All of this is plain to see on the same above quoted wdfw commercial licensing page. But somehow it happens here that certain individuals are reading only the words that support their own speculative, presumptive and rather vitriolic accusations. In my experience these kinds of personal accusations and attacks are never innocent. No one is trying to circumvent or skirt any laws. and no one is harvesting any fish, nor is anyone fishing from a "vessel". The states attorney general office has an adviser appointed for wdfw matters who has stated to me previously that this walking beach guiding is not an illegal activity under the law.

    As regards "seaplanes", Kenmore Air is a licensed carrier for transportation. These people are using the seaplane for transportation only. They are not fishing from the seaplane. They are fishing from the beach. On foot. Under the Code of Federal Regulations a seaplane is only considered a "vessel" while underway upon the waters, ie; taxiing for take off and after landing etc.

    The Salmon Charter license is for a "designated vessel".

    There is no specific requirement or provision for a walking saltwater beach guide to have a salmon charter license.

    Nor is there a specific restriction or penalty against a walking saltwater beach salmon guide. (Probably because the impact would be statistically negligible considering how few would do this).

    The Food Fish License is for fresh waters only. From the same wdfw page:

    A Food Fish Guide license is required if you accept a fee to take a person fishing for salmon, sturgeon or other food fish species in freshwater rivers and streams, except Lake Washington, and the Columbia River downstream of the Longview Bridge, which requires a charter license.
    Vessel designation required: NO

    bugman, EHB86 and Lue Taylor like this.
  3. bhudda

    bhudda heffe'

    Heli - beading (out of a chopper) on the lower Quinault for steelface is on fire! !! Don't even need a tribal guide..your in uncharted territory so jump on it before it's found to be illegal:) also I'll be doing a crabbing chart...I mean crab sight seeing tours for you shore bound folks.
  4. Lue Taylor

    Lue Taylor Lue Taylor/dbfly

    Why complaint about something you probably would never use anyway
  5. PT

    PT Physhicist

    No vitriol although you can interpret it as you see fit. Questions were asked and now you've provided answers. Good luck in the endeavor.

    Somehow float fishing salmon trips (for pay or otherwise) don't seem to mesh with your outspoken view on many things. Commercialism at its finest.
  6. Old Man

    Old Man Just an Old Man

    Another thing here that is making Mountains out of Mole hills. I went to the web site and both guides are licensed guides. They are not fishing out of a float plane.
  7. Joe Goodfellow

    Joe Goodfellow Active Member

    It just sounds like you guys are jealous because you can't go on the plane and catch fish.
    bennysbuddy likes this.
  8. CLO

    CLO Boats and cohos

    Because it's not like we could drive to this beach by the time that plane takes off at 8 am on a saturday.
  9. Chris Bellows

    Chris Bellows The Thought Train

    wordsmithing at its finest. because you can get away with not buying any license specific to salmon and you're not gonna kill any fish. how come you've never advertised targeted salmon trips until now?

    you are no different than those you ridicule who fish salmon under the guise of open cutthroat fisheries.
  10. Jonathan Tachell

    Jonathan Tachell Active Member

    From the WDFW website:

    " A salmon charter license is required if you accept a fee to take a person fishing for salmon, food fish, or shellfish in marine areas 1-13 ( including 2-1 willapa bay, 2-2 grays harbor, 8-1 and 8-2), lake Washington, or the Columbia river downstream of the Longview bridge."

    It says nothing about whether you are guiding from shore or a boat. If you are charging some one to take them fishing for salmon in saltwater you must have a salmon charter license.

    And as stated before a food fish guide license only applies to salmon in freshwater. Excluding lake Washington and the Columbia downstream of the Longview bridge.
  11. Smalma

    Smalma Active Member

    It is pretty clear that "guiding for salmon" on the salt without a charter license is illegal.

    From quote from PT above is directly from WDFW's website and there is no mention of needing a vessel.

    A number years ago the state placed a cap on the number of "charter license" (248 or thereabouts) so the charter/salt water salmon guide fishing is a limited entry fishery. With that cap on the license one interested in guiding in that fishery they have to buy a license from someone with an existing license at more than face value. This business of salmon guiding without the proper license has been a long time problem. It gets interesting on the lower Columbia where those "guides" leaving from the Washington side of the river would need one of those limited entry license but they can get a non-resident guide license in Oregon that has no limit on the number of licenses issued - the only catch is that they must leave and land their catches on the Oregon side.

    From the FAQs section of the link provided in the earlier posts-

    If I charge a fee to students for instruction in fishing techniques on the water, do I need a guide or charter license?
    Yes, if the class includes on-the-water instruction with gear capable of catching fish.

    Closing another common used loop hole.

  12. Joe Goodfellow

    Joe Goodfellow Active Member

    Don't you guys know this is America when you have deep pockets you can do anything you want. What ever happened to the fishing reports and cool pictures of places I haven't been 2 yet? All we have now is people crying because someone posted a report on pnp and Orvis seaplanes. Go fishing guys and gals there's plenty of salmon the seaplane didn't get them all
    rory likes this.
  13. Old Man

    Old Man Just an Old Man

    Where's a padlock when you need one.
    David Dalan likes this.
  14. Chris Bellows

    Chris Bellows The Thought Train

    i actually think the sea-plane is a pretty cool idea, although i would prefer going to secret spots not very accessible to the public which illegal bob has stated is not the plan. i would also like to go with guides who don't screw the legal guides by not being properly licensed for the fisheries they target.

    there is no excuse for illegal guiding, and no excuse for supporting it.
  15. Sean Beauchamp

    Sean Beauchamp Hot and Heavy at yer 6

    Wow this is great stuff. Atta boy Bob! I'll let you borrow my gopro.

    Isn't there something about a pot being called black?
    CLO and Chris Bellows like this.
  16. jeff bandy

    jeff bandy Make my day

    Jonathan, did you try contacting these guides privately (PM) before posting this possibly slanderous thread? If you are right or wrong aside, it seams calling someone's professional integrity into question, on a open forum, without getting their side of it first. Well, that would be just rude. Hopefully you did and this thread is do to a lack of response from them.
    Jeff Dodd and Dan Nelson like this.
  17. Jonathan Tachell

    Jonathan Tachell Active Member

    No. I contacted no one. A company advertised it and I am simply making people aware of the legality (or lack there of) the endeavor. I have not named names or companies, just provided facts.

    I would hate to see a fisherman book one of these trips and get mixed up in a legal issue because they have placed trust in the integrity of the company in question.
  18. DimeBrite

    DimeBrite MA-9 Beach Stalker

    Please read what Smalma posted above, this may not be legal.
  19. Brady Burmeister

    Brady Burmeister Active Member

    For pete's sake, he spoke with the Attorney's General office. It's one thing if you think he's being hypocritical in this endeavor based on his stance on guiding for steelhead, but it's pure bullshit to attack him on legality issues.
    Jeff Dodd and Dan Nelson like this.
  20. smc

    smc Active Member

    The document specifically states "This document describes WDFW license requirements for guides and charter boats."

    You have to read the what follows in the document in context to that statement.
    Dan Nelson and Jonathan Tachell like this.
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