in search of a perfect loop

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by yuhina, Dec 17, 2011.

  1. SpeySpaz still an authority on nothing

    Posts: 1,825
    Roy, WA
    Ratings: +13 / 0
    sorry guys, you missed the flame war. couple pages too late. Shoulda been here last week.

    James, I'm interested in your results too, however the line specs out please keep me posted.
  2. Panhandle Active Member

    Posts: 4,103
    Selkirk Mountains, Idaho Panhandle
    Ratings: +23 / 0
    You guys have officially gone full retard. Never go full retard.
  3. Brady Burmeister Active Member

    Posts: 574
    OH
    Ratings: +155 / 0
    Gotcha. The more I think about it, if you have enough slack to let the bottom of your d loop hinge the cast is probably failed anyway.
  4. SpeySpaz still an authority on nothing

    Posts: 1,825
    Roy, WA
    Ratings: +13 / 0
    My experience withh sinktips on long lines is limited... what's the biggest/ longest sinktip most of those lines can handle? I've gone no longer than a dozen feet, 120ish grains. Is there an upper limit?
    T-8 is great as a sinking leader, as long as you have the diameter to turn it and a less than giant fly.
  5. Brady Burmeister Active Member

    Posts: 574
    OH
    Ratings: +155 / 0
    I have an 8/9 Accelerator that I cut back 15ft. (at the built-in "hinge"). It handles a type 8 8wt. 15ft. rio tip, and a 3" leech. I hit about 75-80' at my best, but I'm barely a novice with the long line. The Accelerator is only one I've ever cast. I wouldn't be surprised if someone that knew what they were doing could get another 40ft., even with the tip.
  6. James Waggoner Active Member

    Posts: 776
    wa
    Ratings: +40 / 0
  7. Greg Holt Active Member

    Posts: 154
    camano island, wa.
    Ratings: +54 / 0
    James,
    Great link thanks.
    I can personally can relate to the following content: "Good= big belly, small stick". I'm good brother, reallllllly good.
  8. James Waggoner Active Member

    Posts: 776
    wa
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    So what about hand placement and stance? I found I have better control with a wider grip, but have yet to really decide what foot I want to lead with.

    James.
  9. KerryS Ignored Member

    Posts: 6,751
    Sedro Woolley, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +1,776 / 0
    It is a matter of casting skill. A friend of mine will throw 20 foot density compensated tips attached to a double taper spey. He can achieve 85 foot casts with it. Me, with his setup, about 25 feet.
  10. SPEYBUM Member

    Posts: 271
    CARNATION, WASHINGTON, USA.
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Here again depends on which school you came out of.
    When I started we only had Double Taper: Later on we added hybrid tips, and shortened them up and made shooting heads out of them.

    Long-belly depends on how well you mind your girlfriend or wife, I other words how slow can you go and not get stuck.

    As for tips you can move any tip with any line as long as the parent line where you attach the tip is has more weight than the tip. I for on go up two line weights for my style of casting.
    Early XLT’s were cut back 27 ft, Early Carron’s were cut back 20 ft or so to cast a 156 grain tip.
    Now I have done away this foolishness and gone to full sinking shooting heads and have more fun.
    The longest full sinking head I use is just under 45 ft with out the tip or poly leader ( note the tip is 126 grains for these heads)
    I hope this helps.
    :cool:
  11. yuhina Tropical member

    Posts: 2,320
    Boston-Idaho
    Ratings: +43 / 0
  12. James Waggoner Active Member

    Posts: 776
    wa
    Ratings: +40 / 0
    Bob, I think, the last three winters using the Guideline DDC has tought me how to deal with sink tips pretty well.
  13. James Waggoner Active Member

    Posts: 776
    wa
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    What full sink head do you use?
  14. SpeySpaz still an authority on nothing

    Posts: 1,825
    Roy, WA
    Ratings: +13 / 0
    ho, hey, James, not an insult intended, hope am reading this wrong...please PM me if an issue.

    I'm grateful that everybody's weighing in on this, not a topic often discussed in this forum. I'm split half and half with fullsinks, I don't like them on shorter rods because I find them to be a pain in the ass to get out, but on longish rods with some strength in the middle they're butter and swim a fly so beautifully.

    I think Kerry and SpeyBum have made some girthy statements worth thinking about...there's a whole winter ahead and the whole strip-strip-strip idea is giving me hives.
  15. James Waggoner Active Member

    Posts: 776
    wa
    Ratings: +40 / 0
    No, I was commenting on how full sink heads 38'-45' with lots of use can give a person a leg up when casting tips in general. I know I struggled at first with the DDC but after a few weeks I was single speying with ease. The DDC is a great line...haven't used a skagit ever since.

    Aaron, you got me inspired. I just dug up a bunch of my old lines and remnants and think I got a winner. Everything seems to Mic out right and measures out to 62'3" and 910grns of head. General make up: 24' of 450 rio skagit looped to 38'3" of DDC and tip. I'll get back with the results once I get a chance to go cast it. May be a total bust but like to experiment.


  16. SpeySpaz still an authority on nothing

    Posts: 1,825
    Roy, WA
    Ratings: +13 / 0
    Oh, cool. was worried there for a minute. The DDC can be a cruel bitch, but once you see her cut the wind she owns you, am I right?
    I'm interested in some of the new concept american Int skagits, am contemplating a SA Int for my new skagit rod.

    James, this float/Int/tip experiment promises to be a total disater, just the kind of crazy shit I love. Please let us all know how it turns out, and if a total disaster, all the more fun! Include disaster vid!
  17. James Waggoner Active Member

    Posts: 776
    wa
    Ratings: +40 / 0
    I'm about 90% sure it'll cast...how pretty? we'll have to wait and see. And of course I'll get some video if I make it out.

    As far as the DDC...a real pleasure to fish, gets deeper than a skagit with less weight and stays in the zone longer. I'd think a intermediate skagit is a bigger disaster in the making than my "Ultra DDC". The thought of pulling such a heavy bulky head from the water and some T-anything, sounds like a day of sustained anchor casts after a roll-up. The DDC is well designed to shed water and extract with ease.

  18. SpeySpaz still an authority on nothing

    Posts: 1,825
    Roy, WA
    Ratings: +13 / 0
    probably fishing mine tomorrow, but instead of the standard DDC tips I'm using a slightly cutback Rio Type III, lightly weighted fly, a slow slow straight swing...shh! we're revealing state secrets here.
    Armageddon! Armageddon!
  19. James Waggoner Active Member

    Posts: 776
    wa
    Ratings: +40 / 0
    Bob, what set up are you using? Rod, head length and weight?
  20. Dan Page Active Member

    Posts: 443
    Yelm, Wa., USA.
    Ratings: +33 / 0
    With regard to the full sink heads, pulling them out is easy with the right rod. For me the Swedish folks have figured this out. Those Guideline rods, and probably any of those other Scandi rods as well as some UK rods, and certain US rods can do it.
    For a short rod set-up I've loved the 12'6" LPXe 9/10 for 420-460 gr. heads. Been using a DDC/ and full sink PT's for many years now and am satisfied. It has been my "go to" for small rivers for winter fishing.
    As we know, there are many ways to get the fly to perform the way we want. Whatever system you are using, there is probably a way to make it work.
    We just have to figure it out at the time.
    Cheers.
    Dan