in search of a perfect loop

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by yuhina, Dec 17, 2011.

  1. Tried but the water the run I was in when I had the experimental set up was kind of a back eddy and was just sucking my line down. I should have tried it in this run but I wanted to get some video of my standard setup (65' head including 15'Tip) before the lights went out. It was really windy but I don't mind practicing in the wind, prepares me for real world fishing.
  2. Speyspaz, you are completely full of shit. There I feel better now.

  3. Did a search on YouTube and found this gem. Great video speed and angle to study and try to emulate.
  4. Really, is that what they're sayin?

  5. James, in the Chalmer video clip you posted,
    In the first cast,
    Do you see a lifting of the rear of the loop out of the water in a more vertical orientation via more downward finish on forward stroke?
    If not, do you instead see the rod "following over" after a non-stop of a springy rod? A high, hard stop after that much force and rod speed and no release would be tough, wouldn't it? Or am I missing something?
    I ask partly because I'm trying to locate the point at which no more casting effort is being applied(when the rod begins to "coast").
    I ask because I'm wondering why such a powerful backstroke was followed with such a forceful finishing stroke. Was it necessary to set up the second (the real) cast?

    The second cast seems very effective, but I haven't been able to completely get his forward stroke timing,force, and release clearly settled in my mind. Textbook backstroke, though. Reminds me of some photo sequences of Al Buhr. More study required.

    I noticed, and perhaps you did as well, that in the first cast, no release of line occurs, while in the second, you'll clearly see him open his bottom hand. This difference between the two casts would have to figure in any attempt at analysis, or using either cast to make a particular point. Comparing the two casts as to force, timing, length, release, and flight path could prove interesting.

    Thanks for posting--I've seen it, but never studied it until now.

    Post script: "ET" force= Excessive Torque

  6. well, sure Dave. What do you see that's different? Maybe we should compare it to the one you posted. (sound of head scratching)

    James, thanks for posting your cast. I, and I'm sure others. remember the civil discussion we were having sveral pages ago.

    If I get a chance on the weekend I'll try to get some vid,
  7. Hi Pan

    I'm glad you feel better, but you must be misunderstanding something.
    It's all part of my Unified Field Theory of casting, or UFT. We can compare your vid to James' and compare the stroke, compare those to the above videos, and draw conclusions from there.

    oh, wait.
  8. Greg,

    Look at the water direction flowing around his legs. That clip looks like a casting demo where he used the snake to reposition the line for a single spey. Putting the line upstream'ish so he could then RH-up single with the direction change. Adding a significant degree of difficulty (RH-up single portion of the clip) with a moving starting point which introduces slack.
  9. Ref: The Chalmer video

    I thought we were discussing "in search of a perfect loop.

    The loop formed in the ref. video appears to be approx. 16ft top to bottom ???

    My casting concentrates on a high quick stop and lazer tight loops (not that it always presents in that manner).

  10. To me this will be the Quote of the year even though I believe it is from 2011.

    `An interesting discussion but one which like so many others on forums leaves me sad.

    Two opposing trains of thought, one held by people with real skill/talent, huge practical experience based on years of thought and practice and willing to share this with others.

    The other a group of theorists who most likely haven't proved themselves in the trenches so to speak.

    To use video clips of great casters out of context is of little benefit to the discussion and confusing to those following who know no better.`
  11. maybe we can start a "regular guys casting" thread and separate the men from the e-casters.
  12. And what thread would you moderate?

  13. Fred Krow,

    Not sure much can be said for the clip as we can't see the loop. Nor do we know the rod/head/cast length. Strange to be criticizing a cast you can't see. I think Bruce sums up the feelings for many with the quote in his recent post.

  14. what say we put you in charge of that one John.

    You got to admit, would be a pile of fun.

    Oh yeah, +1 on both William and Bruce's comments.
  15. Sorry I should have been more clear...I was posting this video partly in response to a PM I recieved from Bruce about using more butt than tip to lift the line, a critique of my personal video. I thought Chalmer's video was a great example of a back cast with butt lift...Bruce is that what you had in mind?

    Besides, techincally everything about his cast looked worthy of emulation. Sure he could have tightened up the loop, but that perhaps was not what he was going for.

  16. I'm not funny
  17. James there is everything to emulate in the video of James Chalmers casting, there are a couple others from the side which show this technique better, he is one of the best casters and casting coaches in the world, so how could you go wrong.
    When you get your Derek Brown dvd it will all be very clear about the shotgun lift.
    watch this video James and notice how he lifts both hands as a unit on the initial lift or pick, that is how you bend into the butt of the rod versus just lifting with your top hand which bends only the tip.
  19. I mentioned in another thread how I wasn't getting the butt out early enough, that vid right there shows the lift I want to perfect. Been giving a lot of thought to lift lately, esp. as concerns overhang. I managed a cast with 15' of overhang on a 15' rod Monday, but I acquired some knowledge to go with the hernia. BTW, only standing knee deep....cheating like a MoFo.
    When I said James' vid spoke to casting a sinktip on a longer head, I was seeing the effort and exaggerated lift energy required to free the tip. I experience the same challenge when thigh to waist deep, I don't know how the UK guys can do it with fullsinks. I know with Tay/Tummel style they pull some of the head in and shoot it back into the D loop, which is fascinating/tricky to try. Bending into the butt on the lift is something I'm going to focus on for a bit, thanks for the insight Buce.

    now, back to our scheduled flame attacks on the Spaz. Wouldn't want to cramp anyone's style or anything. Have at it, children, Uncle Spaz is here for you.

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