Discussion in 'Stillwater' started by troutpocket, Dec 26, 2013.
And your point is? Mine is eliminate every variable that you can to begin with.
My point is since details are so important one ought do your best to address 'em all the best that you can, even though you may doubt the necessity at times...
Moving to 1x fluoro has been a progression. I started out in stillwaters fishing 5x mono. I broke off a lot of fish. I eventually moved up to 3x fluoro but still broke fish off when they took me down into weeds or sticks. I had a conversation a few years back with Denny Rickards and mentioned that I hated breaking fish off. He told me he used 1x fluoro with a non-slip loop knot on every fly that he could fit it through the eye. I scoffed and told him stillwater fish are leader shy. He asked me if I had every tried? Well, now I have and I like running that heavy tippet for several reasons. It rarely gets wind knots, pretty much never breaks off on fish, and almost never breaks off on snags either. I either end up hauling in sticks or bending out the hook. I have also found that my 2x heavy streamer hooks will bend out on fish as well.
I'm not saying it's for everyone and it's mostly overkill on my local waters. . . but fish still eat my flies and I don't break off anymore!
I hope that you don't mind me commenting .....I have found over the years that using fast action rods can account for a lot of lost fish... due to tearing flesh but also break offs....increasing tippet size is one way to compensate .....but medium soft tip rods like Winston BIIX or Sage SLT series allow one to land very big fish with smallish flies and 4X high grade tippett...and that is by applying plenty of pressure...IMHO
Interesting, moving to 1x flouro has been a progression as has the stiffer tips of fly rods, and at times a down sizing towards 5 and 4 wt fly rods for lakes as fast action rods become the norm.I wonder if we will see a development in fly rods away from fast action stiff tips towards slightly slower softer tips, or is that happening now?I am with pond monkey on this one, and I will add that big fish do not always eat big flies.Just ask Brian Chan or any chironie fly fisher up in BC, or those who have micro leeches in their boxes!I also wonder if the slightly stretchy lines protect lighter tippets then these new low stretch lines....
This is getting interesting ---- HA
Umm, yeah. Anyway, I'll post a report of my new line when I've have a chance to fish it a bit.
Thanks for sharing your experience Trout and look forward to your line report! As I wrote I'm looking for a new #3 sink rate trout line and the damn things are expensive.
Most of my break-offs occur at the strike or shortly there-after, meaning my rod is pointed at the fly or somewhere much closer to that direction than up and playing the fish. So I guess I'm not seeing rod action as as big of a factor. I'm not advocating for fast/super-fast rods, as I think they're just not very much fun to cast and not as fun to fish. But I guess I don't see them as that big a factor either.
The two spools 2x fluoro I have laying around are 11 lb and 12.5 lb. If you're getting somewhere close to 100% strength and you're having problems breaking off, you're doing something wrong. I have far more issues straightening hooks or tearing out, and I'm not even using 1x. Even well-tied 4x will straighten out a thin-wire hook and sometimes even standard wire.
Far more issues tearing out ( flesh).....a softer rod will cure that...I have fished with very veteran anglers who thought they were losing bigger fish due to what they thought was "the barbless factor"....but later learned (as I had ) that it was the rod...
I can believe that. Tearing out is one of the reasons that I'm very picky about my reels, as I want the drag start-up inertia to be very low and the drag very finely adjustable. (Obviously doesn't help with a thrashing fish.) I've used some very expensive reels that were horrible in this regard. Those reels might have been able to stop a train, but as it turns out I don't fish for trains.
The type V I was fishing yesterday was the new Rio In Touch. You saw how it didn't catch fish just as well as your guys sinking lines lol.
It seems fine for what I need it for. Not too interested in the stretch rate and the hang down marker annoys the hell out of me, but it fishes well and that's all I care about. It does cast more like a shooting head, which is kind of a plus in my book.
Made a trip over to fish with Ira this weekend. Pass on Saturday, Lone on Sunday. Not so much as a bump fishing sinking lines at Pass, all fish came to indicator setups. Ira and Nick put up some decent numbers, I only managed 5 fish on the day. Lone started off even tougher, no fish until after 1pm. Then picked up a fish here, fish there, again all on indicator presentations. I fished my in-touch camolux for about 30 minutes at Lone. First impressions - it's a heavy 6 weight line. I tried casting it with a Cabelas L-tech 5wt first and it just didn't feel right. Tried a redington RS4 6wt and things started clicking. I didn't have a chance to tear any flesh with my fast rod and 1x fluoro but I'm sure that will come on a warmer day
The line casts well, sinks slow, and didn't coil up or tangle even though air and water temps were in the upper 30's.
Where my Aqua Lux did tangle and so did my 5X tippet material and on this day, Rod caught one more fish than I did.... Hmmm maybe that whole 1X is ok after all.
Probably better hook up ratio with the new no stretch leaders than with no stretch fly lines. Tippet and leader material have lots of stretch.
I've fished the RIO Deep 7 for a lot of years and it has been my favorite full sinking line for fishing deep water in lakes (deeper than 10 feet). I've tried the newer RIO InTouch Deep 7 line and to me it fishes the same as the older version, except that the coating seems to crack and peel quicker. I used to get one to two years of life out of the older versions (I fish about once a week on average), but with the newer InTouch version, it only seems to last about 3 months before the coating starts to crack and peel. RIO's warranty department is really good about replacing the lines (3 week turnaround on the first return, and 1 week turnaround on the second return), but maybe the non-stretch core doesn't match up well with the coating? I'm fishing the third InTouch line now and we'll see how long it lasts, but to have two lines in a row go bad so quickly is not a good sign. I do like the concept of the non-stretch core, as you don't have to stretch out a line before fishing. Honestly, I can't tell that I get any more sensitivity on hits, but my style of fly fishing is casting and stripping, so hits are usually pretty hard anyway.
Thanks for the review. I almost bought an old style Deep 7 line on closeout at a shop last year. Sounds like I should have pulled the trigger!
I think you gotta try both lines back to back on a day with lots of activity to assess the non-stretch core versus old school core.
IMHO the non-stretch Power Core in Airflo lines gives way more strike detection than older stretchy cored lines. I drift fish a lot so I will mend out the entire line and 105 ft of non-stretch results in many more felt taps. Maybe no more hookups in the end but I would rather feel the fish pecking and know I have the right fly than wait 20 minutes with no action at all. Non-stretch also helps with hook sets but can lead to break offs if too heavy handed. A stretchy line is great if your fish fighting skills need improvement but otherwise your rod (when properly utilised) should have all the shock absorption needed to land fish.
If you're just fishing 30 ft straight below the boat then non-stretch is not much of a benefit but if the whole line is in play then non-stretch is your friend..
The non-stretch lines do seem somewhat less durable than other lines but I think I've tracked it down to leaving the rod strung up and having the line do a sharp 180 deg bend at the tip top. I'm going to start trying to remember to keep the sinking line straight and only have the leader on both sides of the tip top while stowed or trying to have slack while stowed. Both of those options make for more tangles though!
I'd agree that leaving a rod strung up might create a weak spot where it makes the bend at the tip top. For me and the RIO InTouch Deep 7 lines I've had problems with, it is not the case of leaving the rods strung up, because on a day trip, I always take down the rod at the end of the day. I also find that the cracking and peeling of the line coating seems to mostly occur in the area of the line where I am casting the most, which is a good ways away from the connection with the leader. I've thought that maybe the tip tops were cracked or got scratched up or something, but I can't detect any burrs or cracks in the tip tops or guides that might damage the line, and I don't have any problems with any other lines used with the rods, like RIO Gold or RIO Aqualux lines.
Years ago (late 70's or 80's) I went to a seminar that Jim teeny was putting on about steelhead with his new 26 ft. 300 and 400 grain heavy sink tip lines. My first one cracked real bad and I was pissed so when it came to questions I rose my hand and asked = I know we dress our dry lines with fly floatant to help protect them but what can we do to help your new "sinking lines" from cracking? He simply said wash them after use. Well I started doing that and last year I was still using a teeny 400 from the 80's until It tangled in my motor while speed trolling for trout
I know it's pretty common sense now to wash our lines but especially with sinking lines. Lake surface film can be very thick and ruin a line pretty fast. although the lines your speaking of sounds like a flaw I would try running the line through a wet towel before putting it away after every use and see if that helps. Also washing it every couple three trips with soap and water would help.
If you are already doing this thanks for the heads-up because now I can stay away from those lines.
Anybody Know of a line dressing (conditioner) that would help with sinking lines and not effect the sink rate? I'd be very interested, damn things are expensive.