indicators in fly only water?

Discussion in 'Steelhead' started by I love babies, Jul 16, 2014.

  1. Brady Burmeister

    Brady Burmeister Active Member

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    Evidence that nymphers are sexist. Enlightened, I would drop this misogynist and find yourself a proper flyfisherman.
     
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  2. PT

    PT Physhicist

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    What I typed is a pretty accurate comparison. I don't expect people with NC to actually see it themselves. As many times as you've stated you can't be offended without your consent, these threads sure would lead some to believe different. What's the old saying, "thou dost protest too much"?
     
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  3. PT

    PT Physhicist

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    Nymphing and swinging are actually pretty easy. To do it well, with solid results, is the hard part. I've done a fair bit of both and know I'd outfish myself probably close to 6-1 if I strictly nymphed.

    Here's the point of why I think nymphing is much easier. And, to be clear, I really don't care how someone else fishes. I just get a kick out of both sides trying to make a point that can't be made. Nymphing is easier in that you can add some shot, adjust your depth and know you're on the bottom. The hard part of nymphing is the part where you actually have to cast all that crap out there. Swinging, not so. It takes more "skill" to properly present a fly within a foot of bottom OTS (on the swing). On the bottom is where you're going to consistently catch steelhead, not mid water column. Anyone can lob some lead out there under a float, mend a bit, feed a bit of line, and cover the bottom with more ease than a person who's trying to figure out how to swing their fly..... near the bottom, nice and slow, and keep it there. There's a reason you see all the guides bobbercatin' their way down the river rather than having their clients do the swingin' 2 step.

    Again, I've got more important things to do than spend a minute of my life worrying about how someone else fishes. The part that does interest me, is that attitude with which others have about their preferred way of angling. THAT, I find somewhat comical.

    The only real important part of this affliction called FF'ing is that we enjoy it. All this other stuff is simply BS.
     
  4. Smalma

    Smalma Active Member

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    One of the good things about getting to be an old fart is that one has a sense of history.

    Up until the early 1980s the fly fishing only regulations precluded any flies that had weight attached or included in the tie of fly. That was changed out of desire of anglers that wanted to use weighted flies on lakes (Chironomid fishing) or in getting flies down easier on steelhead waters. Initially this change was not a large issue.

    Angler protocol at the time on steelhead waters that anglers (fishing on the swing or skating dries) would work their down the run with new anglers stepping in the water above the anglers that were all ready working the run. On reach the tailout and angler would either move on or return to the top of the run and step in at the back of the line. On popular water like that below Deer Creek on the North Fork Stilly that gave all the anglers a shot at the prime hot spots. It was not uncommon to see a dozen or more anglers working that water on a morning during the prime season and times.

    The conflict between the old school swingers and the indicator fishers came to head during the mid 1990s on the NF Stilly. At that time the number of Deer Creek rebound nicely from the low point of the previous decade providing some excellent steelhead fishing. A handful of anglers using indicators took that method to the logically conclusion. 3 inch indicators supporting "flies/jigs" weighing 1/8 to as much as 3/8 of an ounce became common. But the real back lash in the conflict between the two user groups occurred when a handful of anglers using indicators would anchor themselves on the key hot spots. Those anglers would monopolize those spots for hours and at times catching dozens of steelhead a morning while precluding other anglers any chance at that water.

    Bottom line the conflict is less about the gear and more about the lack of courtesy and respect of fellow anglers and even the fish. While it is unfair to paint all anglers fishing with either method with the same broad brush it is easy to understand why there maybe some deep rooted anger.

    curt
     
  5. stilly stalker

    stilly stalker Tuna sniffer

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    Oh yeah, those guys with the big ass floats and heavy ass jigs would post up ALL FUCKING DAY on the prime deer creek water. They thought they were so awesome, and were so fucking cocky about it too. I know at least one of those guys got his tires slashed ( not by me)

    I started fishing the NF Stilly in 96 when this controversy really started to get bad... there was a set of guys who used to do this in the pool where deer creek drops into the Stilly ( above the run everyone fishes) and they were there all the time with HUGE floats. They werent even really casting their setups, total lob/chuck and duck and really I think they had fly line on centerpin reels. It was kind of a big FUCK YOU to the rest of us who were hardcore regulars on that river. Numerous interactions with wardens and other fishermen. Really just left a bad taste in everyones mouth.
     
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  6. Smalma

    Smalma Active Member

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    The return of the wild Deer Creek summer steelhead in 1996 was epic! Not only were there lots of fish in the river (may have been the best return in what may have been 4 decades) the number of exceptional sized fish (fish to the middle teens) was unprecedented. It was unfortunate that what should have been a banner year for all was dominated by so few.

    curt
     
  7. stilly stalker

    stilly stalker Tuna sniffer

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    I had double digit days on the Stilly in 96- many fish at 30" or slightly better. Bucks and a few large hens.

    The good thing about the Stilly is that theres a LOT of good water that nobody fishes. Even then- those guys posted up on a very small amount of water. For the folks who were willing to hike, we were well rewarded.
     
  8. Irafly

    Irafly Active Member

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    This is the point that I continue to make. I always make it clear that I don't care how others fish and my interjections on the subject are only in response to swinger zealots. I do not for a second think that my way of fishing is the best way for everyone else it is though how I most enjoy the sport and I think it is funny that others struggle with the fact that I like to fish an indicator and they think I do it only to catch more fish. I do catch fish with an indicator but I've taken enough people out now with fishing skill to be aware enough that it is not as easy to do successfully as many people make it out to be. I still fish with some very good anglers who just don't do as well as I do fishing the same method I fish, even if I set them up with the depth and the flies. Not being arrogant, but I believe I do better because it is what I love to do so I've taken the time to really understand it.

    PT, if you really don't want to spend a minute of your life worrying about how someone else fishes, why do you keep responding to these posts? For fun like me?
     
  9. stilly stalker

    stilly stalker Tuna sniffer

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    Id like to point out that the kind of indicator fishing that IRAFLY is doing is likely NOTHING like what was going on on the NF Stilly at that time.
     
  10. PT

    PT Physhicist

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    Ira, re-read what you've quoted from me above. It's spelled out pretty clear what part of this is intriguing to me. For every swinging zealot, there is a counterpart. So, no need to make it sound as if you're being picked on.
     
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  11. PT

    PT Physhicist

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    Neither do the swingers. If you never want to take the training wheels off your bike, that's your choice. :)
     
  12. Charles Sullivan

    Charles Sullivan dreaming through the come down

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    I think my way of fishing is better. If I didn't, I'd fish another way.

    Go Sox,
    cds
     
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  13. stilly stalker

    stilly stalker Tuna sniffer

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    its all better than the fishing Im doing at work right now.....which is none. :(

    Get out and fish and rep the hobby in the best way you can.
     
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  14. Irafly

    Irafly Active Member

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    I don't feel picked on, how am I making it sound like I'm picked on.

    For every swinging zealot there is a counterpart? Really? I'm afraid I just don't see it, I still can't see where indicator fisherman say things like, "take off the training wheels", "your just selfish", "The problem with swinging is it sucks and it is no fun", "I find the thought of swinging unpleasant at best and hate seeing swingers or even internet discusions of swinging because it sucks." "It's not that swing fishermen wouldn't be self righteous if they had something to be self righteous about. And they don't put down other fishermen because they first would have to find and identify a lower life form of fishing in order to put it down."

    Or do you mean zealot in the face of how one enjoys fishing? In that case yeah, I'll go with that.
     
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  15. Irafly

    Irafly Active Member

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    Do you think it is better than the way everyone else fishes and that everyone should fish only the way you fish, or just better for you?
     
  16. Charles Sullivan

    Charles Sullivan dreaming through the come down

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    I think I've been clear. I detest nymphing and don't enjoy it. I literally moved 3,000 miles to fish other methods and get away from the hordes of lead chuckers that I was fishing around. I really have no idea why anyone thinks it is the least bit enjoyable.
    I do think it's better to fish other ways because I generally have the same reaction to nymphing as I do to a rattlesnake.
    You can ask leading questions to try and paint those of us who dislike nymphing as being some sort of zealot, but in the end you are just trying to make someone look bad because we disagree. In fact it's this behavior that makes you look like you feel picked on. I don't like Indian food either, that doesn't make me a racist. It just means that I really dislike Indian food.

    Go Sox,
    cds
     
  17. underachiever

    underachiever !

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    In his next life Charles will be a nymphing guide. Yankees fan to boot.
     
  18. Irafly

    Irafly Active Member

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    Touched a nerve did I? I thought it was a simple question based on your post and yet you still didn't answer it. So I guess I'll assume that you do think your method is better than every other method and you do believe that everyone should fish the way you fish? Or did I miss something. Is it just that you lack the ability to understand how others can enjoy something you don't or do you really honestly think they are wrong for liking it? Do you think that people who like Indian food are wrong and should change their ways? Not likely right?

    As for trying to make you look bad Charles because you disagree with me, if you think this is the case you must already think you look bad. I'm not trying to paint those who don't like indicator fishing as zealots, just those who think that their method is superior and that anyone who doesn't fish the way they fish are inferior. You seem to be one of those zealots and I don't need to paint you that way at all because you do it just fine by yourself.

    Do you feel picked on Charles? Wait don't answer that, because according to you I'm only asking these questions because I'm trying to make you look bad and I'm the one who feels picked on. What a joke! Oh me oh my the big bad swingers are picking on me again, I better post up something so they'll leave me alone. Ha ha ha!
     
  19. jwg

    jwg Active Member

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    You guys are distracting Ira from finishing his book!

    J
     
  20. Irafly

    Irafly Active Member

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    Charles will be first in line to buy it I just know it. No space in the book for indicator fishing for steelhead though, unless the steelhead find themselves in a lake, then all bets are off.
     

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