Intermediate lines!

Discussion in 'Stillwater' started by WA-Fly, Oct 21, 2012.

  1. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

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    Denny certainly doesn't have a problem with expressing his opinions.

    He's known to yell at clients "keep your damned rod tip in the water!" I keep mine close to the surface but not subsurface so I guess he'd yell at me too. :D

    When things are slow and me and my fishing buddies are catching nothing... I'll yell at them "Keep your damned rod tip in the water!"

    Never seems to help.
     
  2. troutpocket

    troutpocket Active Member

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    Funny that Rickards came up in this discussion. I read his first book 10 years ago and it really got me rolling in stillwater fishing. But as I've become more focused on lakes, I've developed my own opinions that don't always line up with his. . .i.e. the Cortland Clear Camo line.
     
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  3. Blue

    Blue Active Member

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    Absolutely. We were at Henry's this past Sept. Got out there and saw the familiar small blue pontoon. Got a little closer and it was indeed Mr. Rickards. I love the guy and swear by his knowledge, but even they can have off days, this was one of them.....for him. I used my special flies and my style and several burst of fish every cast.
    I think fish is a combination of skill and confidence. I do throw much thanks to Rickards and Galloup and Jack Gartside, as they have influenced me in my everyday fishing
     
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  4. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

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    You mean to tell me cartoons don't influence your everyday fishing? I find that hard to believe :)
     
  5. LCnSac

    LCnSac John or "LC"

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    Oh this is rich! I am working our ISE this year and I think Denny is going to be speaking. I cannot wait--"Hey Denny! Some Utah broad is talking about clocking you on Henry's. She said something about writing a new and improved book on stillwater fishing!"

    J/K but it's sooooooo tempting;-)
     
  6. Blue

    Blue Active Member

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    LOL My point was even the masters have ......off........days. Be nice ;)
     
  7. Stonefish

    Stonefish Triploid, Humpy & Seaplane Hater

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    While I like my intermediate line, I'm going to pick up a sink tip this spring and go old school. I can remember when I first started fly fishing lakes, it seemed everyone fished or at least had a sink tip line. I caught a lot of fish on a good old Cortland 10' sink tip. Intermediates lines at that time weren't what they are today.
    I think a sink tip with a ghost tip will be as effective today as the old sink tips used to be.
    SF
     
  8. LCnSac

    LCnSac John or "LC"

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    J, you know me well enough to know I'm (almost) always nice ;-) It's just that some of these luminaries tend to have very fragile egos and sometimes fall apart when anyone questions their techniques or theories.

    We have a Delta guide down here who publishes a weekly report and comments almost daily on Facebook. He is one of the few that will publish terrible days, even when he has them in succession. I totally admire that, and there aren't many "names" that will be that forthright with the failures we all have on the water at times.
     
  9. troutpocket

    troutpocket Active Member

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    I occasionally fish a ghost tip line and it certainly catches fish. I attended a presentation by Denny Rickards a few years ago that introduced me to the concept of "retrieve angle"; there are times when fish get dialed on nymphs that are making a slow swim up to the surface. But the nymphs don't just rise vertically like a chironomid, they swim up at closer to a 45-degree angle with frequent pauses to slowly sink before beginning to swim again. He made the argument that a ghost tip sinker allow you make a retrieve to imitate these swimming nymphs in a way that a full intermediate does not. I've encountered a few situations since then when that line has been very productive while my full intermediate and floater/indicator setup were not.
     
  10. Drifter

    Drifter Active Member

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    I see I'm going to have to read his books. which one is the more advanced? any suggestions?
     
  11. troutpocket

    troutpocket Active Member

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    Mark - I've got them all and use them as reference reading over the winter. My suggestion for where to start: Stillwater Presentation. Certainly some good insights on reading lake habitats, adjusting to weather changes and seasons, dialing in and keeping dialed in on bites, pattern design, etc. Also some over-the-top statements/opinions that don't always ring true for me :)
     
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  12. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

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    "KEEP YOUR DAMNED ROD TIP IN THE WATER!"

    :D
     
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  13. LCnSac

    LCnSac John or "LC"

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    I pulled out and dusted off Rickards' Fly Fishing Stillwaters for Trophy Trout last night, and was reminded why I so prefer the east slope of the Sierra over the west. I think the Cascades may be somewhat organic on the west side; our range is granite and supports very little plant growth anywhere except for the high desert.

    It was from Denny's book that I learned how to read lakes and estimate the probability of quality fish presence, especially those where natural reproduction is possible or likely, with a map. His basic fly patterns are included. Between Rickards and Jay Fair flies and materials, you really don't need any other patterns for stillwater in most cases.
     
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  14. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

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    What made the most difference in my catching of fish in stillwaters wasn't a book but a fish/depth finder. When Bottomline was first testing fish/depth finders for float tubes, they sent two prototypes to Deke Meyer. He tried one style and I tried the other... neither ended up the Fish'n Buddy Bottomline eventually sold for small boats and float tubes, but they were the start.

    You can read a river but it is difficult to read a mirror. And that's normally all you see when you first approach a lake. Flat glass. Of course you can look for vegetation and shoreline hints as to what is subsurface but you really only know for sure what is down there and where with a fish/depth finder.

    When fishing new stillwaters, I use my finder to map the bottom of the lake and see where the fish are holding -- it doesn't mean I can catch the fish but at least I'll know it will do me no good to use a dry fly when the fish are holding six inches off the bottom.

    However, the danged thing can also be frustrating if you're marking a ton of fish and can't catch them! Sometimes it's better to believe there aren't any fish in the lake and that's why you're not catching any... the finder shoots down that rationalization.
     
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  15. troutpocket

    troutpocket Active Member

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    For cast/retrieve fishing, I agree. Most of the patterns I strip in stillwaters are either their patterns or influenced by them. And Jay Fair materials are soooo nice for tying lake bugs.

    But . . . the indicator is a powerful tool in lakes. I catch about half my fish under a bobber and many of those are during periods when my cast/retrieve tactics aren't working. The patterns I use for vertical presentation are generally different (heavily weighted, small, and sparsely dressed) than what I throw for cast/retrieve fishing, which are typically fuller patterns that "breathe" as they move. Of course exceptions apply . . .I've done well with skinny #14-16 chironomids stripped on an intermediate line and also with a large carey special under an indicator.
     
  16. Drifter

    Drifter Active Member

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    I've had the fishing buddy since they first came out also GAT. you should see how they work with the side finder looking under brush in tide water for chinook while bobber and egg fishing! great tools, but now I need the new gps tracking and down imaging, finders have come a long - long way. Santa are you reading this????
     
  17. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

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    Mark, I'm getting off topic here but suffice it to say I've had a lot of different Fish'n Buddies. Two were before Hummin (or however you spell it) Bird bought out Bottomline. My first H-Bird finally died so I bought a new one.

    You DO NOT need the color model but all of mine have included the side finder feature... THAT you want. I own the 120 and it will do everything you need. The color feature is a waste of money and burns up batteries much quicker than the 120.

    Now, enough of that. Maybe I'll start a thread in regards to fish/depth finders.
     
  18. LCnSac

    LCnSac John or "LC"

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    Good point. I really try to avoid indicators if there is any other reasonable option so that method wasn't on my radar when I made the statement. I know I would catch more fish using them. I just don't like doing it.

    Re Fishin Buddy: I had an old original one and sold it. It wasn't that great as there was no detail. I now use a wrist mount finder with wireless sonar for the tube/toon, love it. Are the new Fishin Buddys improved? I've heard they have been. Thread drift....
     
  19. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

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    LC, yes, the Hummbird model is an improved design. It has plenty of detail. If you want more detail, you may be interested in the color model.

    I hate using indicators. I get bored too easily when I use them. Too bad the system works so damned well. I'll switch to using an indicator with midge emerger patterns if nothing else is working but I won't like it :)
     
  20. LCnSac

    LCnSac John or "LC"

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    I have a $1000 Raymarine in the skiff that was part of the deal. If you like detail, you'd love this one. I'd just as soon have a $500 unit I can actually understand;-) If you remember the old FBs they were about 5 pixels to the inch. The pics do look much better. I don't care about color on a portable--sidefinder is very handy.
     

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