Is anyone not fishing a two-hander?

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Panhandle, Nov 5, 2007.

  1. g_smolt

    g_smolt Recreational User

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    Got me a few of those switch rods...

    Beats the hell out of trying to single-overhead a 6" 1/8oz leech, and an 1/8oz bassweight.

    The traddys gasp and clutch their breasts at my flawed technique, but I have fun and catch fish.

    Besides, I learned long ago...the fish don't really care about rods, reels, outerwear, and the like.

    IMHO,
    Mark
     
  2. chadk

    chadk Be the guide...

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    iagree - talk about using the right tool for the job.:beer2: Kinda like crossing that line when you realize your ultra weighted fly and massive bobbicator is so big and hard to cast with a sigle hander, that you start to wonder if a 2 hander would do the job better.... or better yet, use the gear rod that does the job so much more efficiently :)

    Spey rod fishers - because it's the only rod of their own that they'll ever fit two hands on :ray1:



    (just trying to bump myself above panhandle in the asshat rankings :thumb:)


    Seriously, who cares. It's just fishing.....
     
  3. HauntedByWaters

    HauntedByWaters Active Member

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    Once again I never said I could cast 80' with a single handed spey all day long.

    I said I could do it, but not all day long and no I am not the God of casting.
     
  4. TrevorH

    TrevorH Active Member

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    Here's my case for the two hander:

    #1- The matter of scale. Determine appropriate gear by working backwards from the fly. If I want to cast a big, soaked, lead-eyed beast of a fly, I'll take more grains of flyline over less as the medium for delivery. I'll take more of a rod to push more of a line as well. To reduce strain on my wrist, I'll put two hands on said rod. I wouldn't pick up a 10oz tack hammer to drive a railroad spike. I would pick up a sledgehammer, and I would use both hands.

    #2- Distribution of load. This was already mentioned in the first note, but the leverage working against a single hander when you starting climbing up in rod weight and/or length, eventually begins eliminating people. I spent a winter fishing the Skagit with a Loomis 9' 9wt IMX, tips, and weighted flies. It sucked. I was flirting with tendonitis by the end of it. Putting two hands on the problem totally changes the physics in favor of the caster.

    #3- Economy of motion- I'm sure there are guys who can single-handed spey considerably better than myself, but I very often find that I use a spey cast to change direction off the dangle, then pick up into an overhead cast for presentation. As previously mentioned, single handed speys work better with less to present. When I go to weighted flies or flies with any size or bulk, I almost always end with an overhead cast. With a two-hander, the change of direction and presentation is accomplished at once. No false casting or other "unnecessary" motions.


    All that said, I fish the smallest rods I can. I have a Sage 5120, a couple 6126's, a Meiz 11'7", a Loomis Metolius 13'4" 5/6, and a Winston 11' 7wt at the light end of the spectrum. Anything over 3-4lbs is putting a bend in these rods, some more than others. A 6-10lb methow steelhead is a very game fish on these rods.

    In really brushy, tight quarters I'll take out the 9'6" Scott g-series 7wt single-hander and overline it. I like the scott from time to time for skating dries, though I only do that a couple times a year at most. I would also consider a single-hander for extreme low-water conditions when I couldn't count on riffle noise to cover the sound of spey casting.

    The biggest knock against a two-hander is really more a matter of casting technique. All spey casts begin at the dangle, i.e. the end of the swing. In my mind, they excel over single handers for a swung or greased line presentation. I have been toying around with adapting my efforts to include upstream indicator presentations for those dark holes & seams that don't lend themselves to a swung fly, but this will remain a technique best suited to overhead casting.
     
  5. inland

    inland Active Member

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    Adam,

    Can't wait till 'morrow.

    William
     
  6. inland

    inland Active Member

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    jbuehler,

    "Furthermore I can spey cast my single hander about 80' and I hardly ever fish further away than that so I don't really see a need for a true 2 hander."

    Yeah...guess I just read more into that statement. I mean how stupid of me to come away feeling like you said you can cast to 80'.

    William
     
  7. Jeremy Floyd

    Jeremy Floyd fly fishing my way through life

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    First off I apologize. I didnt mean for the comments when I agreed with Jim to blow up.

    Secondly, 80 feet with a type 6 is not any big deal with a 1 handed 8 wt rod even throwing a lead eyed bunny (not one of the solid brass eyes but true lead eyes) even with another bead chain one as a trailer. Just like most things in life it is 95% timing.

    Thirdly, I was totally teasing but in pointing out some of the places where spey rods lack I stepped on toes or hurt feelings for not validating Kerry's speyfishing hobby. I shouldn't have done that.

    Fourthly, there is nothing wrong with spey fishing. I just hate to see people walk out on to the river and invest an entire day to fishing to be rewarded by skiing 4-6 lb fish in to the banks after a 30 second fight.

    Fifth, If you spey fish because you prefer it over 1 hand casting then that is great. If you spey fish because you cant cast a 1 hand rod well enough to fish "the waters" in the winter time when the rivers come up then don't get upset if people point out that for being a good reason why quite a few people use the big sticks.

    Lastly, I fish the way that I feel rewards me the most for the time invested. I would hope you do too. I am not here to push an agenda or make you feel less for using a spey rod (which is why I apologized). I do however hope that you have as much of a sense of humor as I do regarding trivial things like fishing or in matching the rod (roughly) to the size of fish I am after.
     
  8. Panhandle

    Panhandle Active Member

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    So........ you're saying we should fish single handers so that it takes 15 minutes to bring a fish in:thumb:
     
  9. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

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    I can show you places where a 90 foot cast is needed to reach the holding water and I can show you places where a 40 foot cast is going to be to far. Fishing for steelhead is a matter of fishing the water where the fish are going to be holding and putting in time on that water. It has nothing to do with what rod you are holding. But, if you are standing in a run that requires a heavy tip and a 90 foot cast I would suggest that if you can't make that cast, cast after cast after cast, just move on.
     
  10. inland

    inland Active Member

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    jeremy floyd,

    "Secondly, 80 feet with a type 6 is not any big deal with a 1 handed 8 wt rod even throwing a lead eyed bunny (not one of the solid brass eyes but true lead eyes) even with another bead chain one as a trailer. Just like most things in life it is 95% timing."

    Umm...once again I call BS. Day after day, week after week? One tough camper if you can pull this off for an entire winter season (as in fishing 60-90 days of it anyway).

    "Fourthly, there is nothing wrong with spey fishing. I just hate to see people walk out on to the river and invest an entire day to fishing to be rewarded by skiing 4-6 lb fish in to the banks after a 30 second fight."

    Myth number 967.4. You will sooner ski your 4-6# dog (Ronde steelhead) with said single hander. PERIOD. Something to do with physics and such. Levers. A dog is a dog is a dog. Using a 2wt wouldn't change the fish. Any proficient angler can beat any steelhead faster with a 9' 7wt then with a 15' 10wt. If the big rods were so powerful...wouldn't they be the rod of choice for Tarpon/Sails/Marlin???

    "Fifth, If you spey fish because you prefer it over 1 hand casting then that is great. If you spey fish because you cant cast a 1 hand rod well enough to fish "the waters" in the winter time when the rivers come up then don't get upset if people point out that for being a good reason why quite a few people use the big sticks."

    Don't get upset when I say you have NO CLUE about two handed rods. Have you even spent more then 15 minutes casting one? Let alone learning to be proficient enough to cast and fish them?

    William
     
  11. Jeremy Floyd

    Jeremy Floyd fly fishing my way through life

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    ^
    and that is what is so great about fishing.. you can believe what you want and I can too and we dont have to argue, but instead just be secure with our success.

    J
     
  12. Be Jofus G

    Be Jofus G Banned or Parked

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    I still just use a one hander. I wouldn't mind having a two hander but don't really see the need to drop the $$ on one right now. There's plenty of water to fish that does not require one and It's hard enough finding time to fish all of those runs. I do psuedo spey cast the one hander on skinnyish water sometimes chasing cutthroat, or brookies, if I'm out east. They look like a lot of fun. :cool:

    80' consistantly with a one hander is not a big deal. I've seen guys do it all day with 6 wt's on beaches throwing pretty heavy clousers.
     
  13. FT

    FT Active Member

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    A "30 second fight to have a steelhead to the bank". WOW!! I'd like to see that with one of the larger winter fish in the OP rivers, Skagit, Sauk, Sky, etc., or on the Thompson or Skeena tribs in BC, the Clearwater, Snake, or Salmon in ID, the Deshutes, Sandy, Rogue, etc. in OR. Granted, if a person uses a 9 or 10 wt 2-hander for 4-6lb fish, he is grossly overgunned and the fish will be "motor boated" in. However, if said person is using a 6 or 7 wt 2-hander on the same 4-6lb fish, unless it is a dog of a steelhead (like many of those on the Ronde), it will take more than 30 seconds to get the fish to hand.

    And as Kerry mentioned, there are many places I fish 40' (some where I only fish 25') out in the river, but there are other places in the same river where you can find fish 120' out from where you stand and cast. A large 16'-18' 11wt 2-hander and well-executed spey cast with a longer belly line make casts of 120'-130' entirely possible and useable with 15' of type 6 or type 8 as a sink tip and 2/0 flies.

    Besides, whoever said that a 2-hander can only be used to fish 70' or further out from where you are standing? It is really no harder to fish a 2-hander (even the big 16'-18' sticks I use in winter) at 20' than to use a single-hander at 20'. But when there is brush or a high bank close behind, a 2-hander will allow you to very easily cover lies 40'-80' out, same can't be said for a single-hander in the same situation.

    If some of you don't wish to use a 2-hander, fine, just quit trashing 2-handers as being fashion statements or unnecessarily long and heavy. Likewise, if you haven't cast a 2-hander, please refrain from telling those of us who have been using them effectively for many years (me, like Inland, since 1992 or 1993) we don't know what we are doing or talking about. Likewise, just because someone has picked up a 2-hander and cast it 15 minutes or even cast one for an hour one time, does not make you knowledgeable about 2-hand rods and spey casting.
     
  14. fredaevans

    fredaevans Active Member

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    First, a 2-hander is not the "end all-be all;" there are times (many times) where a single hander (or switch rod) make far more sense to use in a given situation. I've used 2-handers from age 10 or 12, but even today I always have a 'regular' fly rod in/on the car. Fishing water in 'tight?' A spey makes zero sense to use.

    That said, even with the single hander, almost all of my casts are 'modified' spey casts. The rod doesn't know, and the rod doesn't care - zero 'false casting.'
     
  15. chadk

    chadk Be the guide...

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    reason number 22: the manufacturing of big ass spey rods contributes more to greenhouse gasses. Fish a single hander - the fish will thank you... mother earth will thank you :)
     
  16. o mykiss

    o mykiss Active Member

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    To each his own, I guess, but it seems like the people on this thread who are crapping on the double handed rod have little (if any) experience fishing this kind of rod. Frankly, those opinions are pretty worthless. For those of you who accomplish everything you want as an angler with a single-handed rod, more power to you. But suggesting that everyone who is fishing a two-handed rod is just following a trend is pure nonsense. Yah, it's a trend, just like plastic fly lines were in the 1950s and '60s, graphite fly rods were in the 1970s, and breathable waders were in the 1990s. Just because certain people buy spey rods and then unload them when they can't figure out how to cast them doesn't mean it's just a trend. You spey rod haters apparently can't appreciate that these rods are tools that open up new possibilities. Personally, I think fishing the 2-hander is fun and rewarding. I can consistently and with little effort deliver my fly to places I can't reach with a single hander at all, or at least not without enduring a physical beating. (I know, all you guys who are the second coming of Lefty Kreh can effortlessly cast a single hander long distances for days on end. Unfortunately, I'm not that talented.) I can also fish places (e.g., with my back to a steep or brushy bank) where an overhead cast would be impractical if not impossible to execute. Sure, that situation could possibly be addressed by using certain types of spey casts on a single handed rod (particularly where distance isn't all that critical), but I still prefer to use a double-handed rod in those situations. I will often fish a single hander in situations where it's the right tool (e.g., casting and stripping or fishing small water) and will probably always stick to single-handed rods for trout, but for steelhead I will fish the two hander even in places where a single hander isn't required just because it's so dang fun to cast one.
     
  17. HauntedByWaters

    HauntedByWaters Active Member

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    iagree This is exactly how I fish and what I have been trying to convey on this thread. A spey cast is at the very least a great way to get the line out of the water, rod loaded, and in one false cast bomb a fly across the river.

    Even in small stream situations with brush behind me I am doing 10-30 foot spey casts constantly.

    Another fine point is that a spey cast disturbs the water much less than a typical roll cast and is much smoother and faster. This cast spooks fewer fish in small stream brushy situations as well!

    I am going to write something up soon on spey casting with single hander for this website that details what I am talking about because like I said, learning to spey cast revolutionized my fly fishing with or without a 2 handed rod and has lessened the fatigue on my arms considerably.
     
  18. Charles Sullivan

    Charles Sullivan dreaming through the come down

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    Great thread. This is awesome. Super one handed casters tearing into spey guys because they are trendy. Why all the hate for the spey?
    If you write that people are buying them because they are trendy, that say's more about how you view the world than about the spey rodder. These sorts of statements are as foolish as those making them. That is quite a high level of foolishness.
    If you can cast a single hander five trillion feet all day and that's how you like to do it then fine. Good for you. I prefer to fish a spey almost exclusively. The reasons are many, limitted time to fish, a preference for steelhead, a preference for swinging, a bad shoulder, it's fun. I could go on and on. It is both arrogent (sp?) and stupid to asssume that you know the reason why someone does something without asking them first. It's nearly as dumb as starting a political rant with the phrase; some say...
    Seriously, before you attribute a thought or a reason to someone else, look in the mirror. It is really your thought.

    '04 & '07,
    cds
     
  19. rick matney

    rick matney Active Member

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    Dry fly or Die!!!!!!
     
  20. Big Tuna

    Big Tuna Member

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    Not sure why it's so difficult to have an adult conversation for some of y'all. Not everything needs to turn into a pissing match. Just a couple of personal observations. Fishing a two-handed rod is hardly trendy. The Scots have been doing it for 150 yrs. or more. We're just finally catching on to the benefits of using a two-handed rod. I've owned a spey rod for about 5 yrs., but haven't really gotten into it until the last year or so. After fishing the Clearwater, it became abundantly clear to me that there are some significant advantages to using a spey rod on big water. A competent spey caster can throw 90-100' of line w/ relative ease (I don't consider myself competent, by the way), and the good ones throw 120' plus. You can fish water that just isn't fished w/ a single hander for the most part. Spey casting is far more efficient if you are using techniques that don't require stripping line. There is no comparison in terms of line control. Finally, I find it aesthetically pleasing. A good spey caster is poetry in motion. Though I realize for many that is unimportant, I personally get great satisfaction from it. At the risk of sounding corny, one of my attractions to fly fishing is that it is artful if done well. From well-proportioned colorful flies to graceful loops, it's frankly a pretty darned lovely sport. Spey casting just takes it to another level in my opinion. I've got a long ways to go in developing my skills fishing a two-handed rod, but it's another challenge that keeps the sport fresh and interesting.