Is it a mans fly fishing world??

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Kaari White, Jul 8, 2006.

  1. Charapa New Member

    Posts: 78
    Mercer Island, WA
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    It is NOT "generational-gap" (old geezers et al), every human group has its share of 'brain-undeveloped-jerks' & its accompaning group of 'timid-mob mentality-sheep'. Congrats in finding out who your real friends are.
    Many of us (those who think w/ our 'head-abv shoulders' instead of you know what) like women (people) & give the benefit of the doubt to them BEFORE avoiding (or labeling) them.
  2. doublespey Steelhead-a-holic

    Posts: 593
    Bothell, WA
    Ratings: +20 / 0
    Hey CWU,

    I won't repeat all the nice consoling things people have said - they're all true.

    I'll only offer that you'll experience rejection whether your man or woman, black white yellow or red. Old or young. Skilled or unskilled. There's always going to be someone who might want to exclude you.

    Sometimes they tell you the reason, other times not. Maybe you're too good a caster and will make them feel inferior. Maybe you're too young and some of the old farts want to be exclusive. Maybe you fish with nymphs and they're a dry fly crowd. Maybe you talk too much. :clown:

    The social aspect of fishing is full of disappointment. Fortunately, you're an adult and can fish whenever, and with whom, you choose. As you've probably noticed by the responses, there are plenty of people who'd be happy to fish with you.

    Most of the guys I know think girls who like flyfishing are the 8th wonder of the world and line up to fish with them. I probably fit into that catagory - I've given quite a few freebie lessons as a result. I think you'll encounter that response far more often than the isolated exclusion because of your gender.

    Good Fishing,

  3. chadk Be the guide...

    Posts: 5,057
    Snohomish, WA.
    Ratings: +41 / 0
    From that site:

    "Everyone is invited to attend the dedication
    of the vault toilet. You can make a brief
    stop on the way to a day of fishing, or just
    pop over the mountains to share in the fun.
    After all, how many opportunities ARE
    there in a lifetime to celebrate a toilet!"
  4. Kaari White Active Member

    Posts: 825
    Seattle, WA
    Ratings: +31 / 0
    Doublespey, that's why I was so shocked to be excluded! Pretty much guys love it that there's a girl that fly fishes around.... I've really only had negative experiences a few times. Most of those negative experiences related to my gender were while I was hunting, which isn't exactly smart considering I was holding a 12 gauge shotgun... But guys sometimes aren't really that smart with their comments!

    What I do run into often are strangers fishing that will automatically assume the guys I'm with are the experiences fishers and won't really address me as a real fisherman.

    On the flip side, guys low opinion of a woman's skills has payed off big time while fishing. Guys are all too willing to share information with a clueless girl. :cool:
  5. Denny Active Member

    Posts: 4,043
    Seattle, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +46 / 0
    That really is a major bummer . . . particularly considering that you have already been going up there, and are technically part of the 'team'.

    I just thought of something, though. I know the dynamics are a little different, but what if you and 14 of your female friends wanted to go on a simlilar trip and there were one lone guy that wanted to go along? Again, I understand there would be some slightly different dynamics, but I also wouldn't be surprised if the outcome were the same; you all would probably prefer for him not to go along.

    I'm not saying that I would or woudn't have voted for you to go along. Without knowing you, I think it would be pretty cool for a female to want to go along. But back to the dynamics thing, let's give the guys the benefit of the doubut and that maybe some of the guys are worried about that 'sexual' dynamics thing that can happen, especially when there is one lone female among many guys on a multi-day trip . . .

    Just some things to consider on a slightly different perspective.
  6. WT Member

    Posts: 768
    Seattle, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +6 / 0
    Brilliant logic. Why are you comparing a trip with a handfull of guys to a trip with 14 women?

    CWU Girl,
    At least now you know who your friends are. Shitty as it sounds there are still fly fishing clubs that women aren't allowed in. Yeah, a fly fishing club right here in Seattle that doesn't allow women. Crazy huh?
  7. Roper Idiot Savant

    Posts: 4,276
    Glenraven Ranch
    Ratings: +767 / 1
    Well, DB and JH have one of two problems either their just chauvanistic assholes or their wives threatened to cut them off is there was a woman in camp. Take your pick, either on is LAME!
  8. Itchy Dog Some call me Kirk Werner

    Posts: 3,718
    Ratings: +413 / 0
    If CWUGirl and 14 of her female friends were going on a fishing trip, I imagine there'd be a line of guys from this web site applying for the vacant position requiring a Y chromosome. Except not me- I'm too old.

    And my wife wouldn't let me.

  9. Denny Active Member

    Posts: 4,043
    Seattle, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +46 / 0
    And, a fly club right here in Seattle that doesn't allow men . . .

    right back atcha, WT.
  10. Denny Active Member

    Posts: 4,043
    Seattle, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +46 / 0
    It's because in CWU's initial posting, she noted that she is one of 15 people that typically go on this outting; now that it looks like she's not going, 15 less 1 is 14.

    I'm just trying to compare apples to apples for my example, though it appears tough in this instance. :thumb:
  11. wrench Member

    Posts: 408
    Libby, Mt, US.
    Ratings: +13 / 0
    Having a gal going along on a trip changes things for me. Some good, some akward, so I can at least see where they are coming from. They are not jerks or any of the other names you wish to call them. Punching them in the face is not going to help anything, even thinking about it puts the potential "puncher" at or below the social scale of the trip's orginizers. Despite the fact that I enjoy many of my wife's friends, I do not join them in their get-togethers, it would change things for them too. No matter how hard people try to make the world of men and women "equal" it is not and will not ever be, and thank the lord for that, I enjoy the fact that the two sexes are so different, physically and mentally.
    CWU girl, if you were hurt at all that is the crime. Life is too short. If you ever want to go carping when I end up in E Wash let me know. Yes, it would change the dynamics of the trip a bit, but for the better. What fun to get to know somebody new, probably with a whole diff way of looking at things!!
    There will almost certainly be a few along on that trip with a little bit of guilt tagging along.....
  12. Cactus Dana Miller

    Posts: 667
    Tacoma, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    I have GOT to see that![IMG]

    If I were fortunate to have a young woman like CWUGirl for a daughter, I sure wouldn't turn down an oportunity to spend 3 days together in the outdoors with her. Times like that are too far and too few.

    But then again, if she were my daughter, I would have insisted she attend WSU![IMG]
  13. Matt Burke Active Member

    Posts: 3,640
    Ratings: +55 / 0
    Definitely time to reevaluate who those friends are. As a dad, I would blow that trip off today if they blew off my baby. Or, if they requested I not bring any of my friends who might be unsettling. Usually snotty bastards like that don’t have anything to teach me except something I don’t want to be, like being selfish. You are a better person for already deciding to move on and leave those losers in their own mucky boggy crap that has probably made them less than men their whole lives.
  14. billylee New Member

    Posts: 53
    Ratings: +0 / 0

    When my two daughters are fishing, if one of them gets dumped from a trip, I ain't going and I'm going to have words with the owner. If guys want to be guys then they should arrange a separate trip on the side or deal with it themselves.

    Most "guys wanna be guys" things in my life tend to be with my married friends now and we spend half the time talking about our kids and wives! Not dissing them either, just BSing and remembering all the good stuff like we sometimes do about old soccer matches. God bless our wives for doing the same thing at the spa! Viva la difference! They talk about us and we talk about them. I suspect that they place bets in between on whose husbund farts louder or forgets the most birthdays.

    When it's a paying situation it's BS for DB1 to pander like that. DB1 and his outfit should be named so that those of us who may accidentally sign on to a trip with him know better!!!

    Flyfishing isn't a man's world any more than soccer or any other sport is. I have a female cousin who plays rugby and a good friend at work who plays hockey. I shall not play either for fear of hurting my own self.

    Both of them are badass and I hope to god my girls aren't intimidated by gender based crap either.

    Keep fishing as long as you love it! DB1 should go piss up a drainpipe.
  15. Kevin J. Burnham Active Member

    Posts: 2,146
    Ratings: +140 / 0
    CWU, This is a tough one for me. You have gone on this trip before so I'm with you on this because the men on this trip should expect you to be there. Having said that though the truth of the matter is that yes Richard and the Wrench hit it right on that men act waaayyy different when women are around. And like wise my wife acts way different when it's her and the girls night out. I fished with a tight group of guys back in the 80's & 90's. One year we invited a new guy along and it worked out just fine. The next year he invites his wife to go along with 7 of us guys. It was very uncomfortable and not fair to the group. Again this case is not that case but if I invited my wife to go on a Montana trip with a couple of my buddies she would look at me and ask "ARE YOU OUTTA YOUR FRIGGIN MIND". And you know what I would be !!
  16. Bob Triggs Your Preferred Olympic Peninsula Fly Fishing Guide

    Posts: 3,952
    Olympic Peninsula
    Ratings: +623 / 0
    Joan Wulff often tells other women to "Make it your own". I guess she did alright by folowing her own bliss.
  17. salt dog card shark

    Posts: 2,306
    Edmonds WA / Mazama
    Ratings: +2 / 0
    I remember that movie, A League of their Own, or something like that; well, its coming, and more power to them.

    I love fly fishing with my daughter (18); its a good time to connect, and I have fished with her since she was 5. However, it is different than fishing solely with a male friend. Both are good in their differences, and each has their separate time and space.

    But, do respect that there are substantive differences between the two for a father. When I fish with a buddy, I take more chances, I press the edge in a way I would never do with my daughter or my boys (16) present: in where I camp, how I wade, white water I run, or god awful brush I crash through to get to an unknown place, and I'm unconcerned where I’m at when it getting late or whether I have eaten (if the fish are on (or might be)).

    If you have your family, or one of your children with you, it does make a difference in the outing, because a piece of your awareness is ALWAYS on taking care of your family when they are there, because you would never forgive yourself if something happened to them and you weren't on top of it or were responsible for exposing them to danger and didn't protect them from it. This is an automatic reflex, regardless of the likelihood of any real danger, you’re still ‘on duty’. When I'm just with a buddy, my awareness is only in the present, only focused on the pursuit, and not worried/responsible for looking after someone else other than that required of a buddy system in the outdoors. Sometimes I need that. It’s a bit of vacation from that part of my responsibilities. Sometimes I equally crave to share my love of all things outdoors with those I love most, my kids and wife. I want both, I do both, but I have learned they don’t mix well. The key is that I always make time for both, and my family always know the difference.

    The frustration and disappointment you felt by being left behind likely stings more from the way that it was handled by people close to you. I guess I would feel a bit betrayed, especially given your expectations. I would cut them some slack, but I definitely would talk to them and clear the air, especially with your father. Then, as suggested by most everyone, I would set about to get a new group of fishing friends and move on; sounds like its time. Best of luck.
  18. salt dog card shark

    Posts: 2,306
    Edmonds WA / Mazama
    Ratings: +2 / 0
  19. Kaari White Active Member

    Posts: 825
    Seattle, WA
    Ratings: +31 / 0
    The points you guys are making are definitely valid.... But I'll just say I'm probably not like a lot of your wives/daughters.

    Growing up my mom sent me off with my dad uttering the same words everytime- "look out for yourself because no one else will." It's funny, but really true! I was raised as my dad's buddy and I've been in a lot of situations where I'm the only girl as a result. I've just learned to acclimate to it- but I'd never say I'm "one of the guys"- I'm a girl, I know it, I don't strive to be anything that I'm not. I've had a lot of practice at this and I honestly don't think the dynamic is changed much by me being there.

    Maybe I'm deluding myself! I don't know! I've been at this more than half my life, I think I should know something by now.

    Also- I have to say I don't think a tuperware party is at all similar to fly fishing. More apt similar examples would be other sports- soccer, baseball, poker (it's not a sport, but whatever)... I'm involved in a sport I have a passion for and that happens to mostly attract men. That's quite different than a group of ladies sitting down to discuss the merits of tuperware vs. gladware. :rolleyes:
  20. Matt Burke Active Member

    Posts: 3,640
    Ratings: +55 / 0
    Being a woman is still not a reason for what they did and being men doesn't give them the right to do it. The worst part about it is your were already in. Now a couple years later, somebody thinks up a thought and you're out? Keep living without letting those bozos get you down. Juck them if they can't take a foke.