I've never seen a guide do this before...

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by para_adams, Aug 22, 2014.

  1. Luke77

    Luke77 I hope she likes whitefish

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    Yes, this and rowing laps in good holes is standard guide practices.
     
  2. hydrological

    hydrological beads are NOT flies and snagging is just ghetto

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    if only it were true. wouldnt it be heaven ?
     
  3. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

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    There is an advantage to the no fishing from a boat on the Deschutes. The trout can find "safe haven" in the river because you can't reach some areas by wading. This means larger trout because the trout that live in the safe haven areas have a chance to grow quite large and are only caught when they venture elsewhere in the river.

    The guides and others may not like the regulation but as far the general population who fish the river are concerned, it is a good regulation.
     
  4. Derek Young

    Derek Young 2011 Orvis Endorsed Fly Fishing Guide Of The Year

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    Seriously? I've done it maybe three times in six years. "Standard" practice should be recognizing when an opportunity is coming and prepare the caster(s) ahead of time, with a description of the dynamics of the shot they're going to get at a particular spot, and how to be successful - which doesn't always mean catching the fish.



     
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  5. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

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    You lost me...
     
  6. Luke77

    Luke77 I hope she likes whitefish

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    I guess I'm willing to give beginners a second shot at the opportunity of a good fish.
     
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  7. Derek Young

    Derek Young 2011 Orvis Endorsed Fly Fishing Guide Of The Year

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    Rowing laps in good holes is quite different than giving beginners a second shot. It's a tactic that draws far more criticism than praise.

    GAT, let me clarify. If the person rowing the boat, a guide or not, knows that a particular place holds a fish, and prepares the people casting ahead of time, it can be a great learning opportunity. Being able to describe exactly how a run/slot/line is going to fish not only builds credibility for the rower, but the angler learns to recognize when similar situations come again - that creates opportunities and confidence.

    Rowing laps isn't creating opportunity, it's a crutch.
     
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  8. Luke77

    Luke77 I hope she likes whitefish

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    Ok, so rowing laps is okay if you have righteous intentions, but if you just want to catch fish it's not? Not sure why the attack as I would consider us friends, but Ok. We'll take it offline.
     
  9. JesseC

    JesseC Active Member

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    I would be fine rowing laps for baby yakima trout.

    For steelhead I think it's a dick move unless I'm in the boat.
     
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  10. Derek Young

    Derek Young 2011 Orvis Endorsed Fly Fishing Guide Of The Year

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    Don't take it personal Luke. You made a broad generalization of a practice that isn't standard IMHO and I'm providing another perspective.

    Again to clarify, not being righteous here. If I caused the angler to miss the presentation, I'll walk it back up and correct my mistake. Fishing a run over and over, rowing in circles, especially for a beginner teaches the wrong lesson.
     
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  11. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

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    Dang! That's funny! :)
     
  12. troutdopemagic

    troutdopemagic Active Member

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    As others have said its done pretty commonly since it slows the boat better then simply using oars. Also it lets the clients stay in the boat.
     
  13. Trapper Badovinac

    Trapper Badovinac Author, Writer, Photographer

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    Derek - I see your point and it's a very valid one with some anglers. Every time anglers got in my driftboat or raft I had to access their skill level. From never-ever newbies to well known fly fishing gurus, I adapted to what was happening on the river and their skill level instead of adhering to some rigid standard I set for myself.

    While I agree with your approach for experienced or even intermediate anglers, trying to explain ahead of time to a never-ever the nuances of reach casts, feeding lies, seams, micro-drag, etc is just going to further overwhelm an already overwhelmed newbie. Getting me out of the boat and holding it gives them the opportunity to make plenty of mistakes and then to finally improve.

    On fast moving water and newbies, what you're suggesting would be like teaching someone to shoot a rifle in the middle of a firefight.

    I rarely ever did the "row around" and if I did it was only one more pass through. Monopolizing a run or honey hole is a very poor lesson to teach.

    Trapper
     
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  14. hydrological

    hydrological beads are NOT flies and snagging is just ghetto

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    its called the circle jerk. becoming way too common with the new breed of guides. with many, it is really all they know. a good guide teaches, and if they want clients to have mulpitple chances to get it right, they get their clients out of the boat, and teach them how to make the presentation for themselves.
     
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  15. Blackbugger

    Blackbugger New Member

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    This is a pretty common practice these days on a couple rivers. Especially the Jeff.
    I suppose it's because the fish are typically stacked in specific runs and the nature of the river with it's slower big sweeping bends and holes makes it possible to easily do laps.
    The guides, pretty much all of them, run their clients bobbers down the prime runs and then row back up to the top again, usually several times in the most productive holes.
    I see this a bit on the Beav as well when it's higher.

    Guides on the Henrys Fork in the Box routinely get out and walk the boat through runs, sometimes right in the middle of the river if it's not too high, kind of sketchy in that volcanic bed rock but I've watched them put their clients on multiple fish doing it.
     
  16. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

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    The bit about rowing back up a river to drift through a run again I've seen done once in Oregon on a steelhead river. It wasn't a guide and the practice really, really pissed off the guys fishing the run from shore.

    It's common to see a hog line of steelhead anglers just below a steelhead hatchery.

    One day I was fishing on the South Santiam and some dude in a drift boat would drift through the hog line water, then row back upstream and drift back down.

    The reason this pissed off those fishing the run is because there is very limited bank access to the South Santiam and a ton of water only available to those in a drift boat.

    As steelheaders are known to be a hostile lot, the guy was taking his life in his hands by dominating a run with a drift boat when he had miles and miles of river he could fish where there we no bank anglers.

    I've never seen anyone try the "circle jerk" bit on a trout river in Oregon.
     
  17. hydrological

    hydrological beads are NOT flies and snagging is just ghetto

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    worse yet, is the drift boat with a motor. had this happen several times on the umpqua. dudes casting right into the water i was swinging, of course. once, even after politely suggesting there was tons of water they could do that in that wasn't already occupied, these particular asshats mototred back up and went through several more times before i finally reeled up, flipped them the bird and left. unfortunately, hatchery steelhead, and harvest of them (and some places wild fish)really brings out the douchebags, the lowest forms of life i've ever seen. worse yet, these white trash scumbags are allowed to breed.
     
  18. Old Man

    Old Man Just an Old Man

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    Nothing wrong with a well placed weight on the end of your line. Sorry I was casting to the hole you were HOGGING.
     
  19. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

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    If they're also doing it on the Ump, then the practice is becoming popular.

    I try to avoid steelhead fishing rivers where drift boats are used. That's why I steelhead fish waaaaay up the Siletz where there are no drift boats and you can hike away from the crowds.

    There's already enough conflict between boaters and bank anglers without the circle jerk becoming common place.
     
  20. para_adams

    para_adams Active Member

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    Well, I surely did not mean to spark any controversy with my post and now wish I'd never put it up. That said, this comes from the FWIW bin, I do want to note that river was nearly empty of other fishermen that day with only one or two other rafts seen all day and maybe a half-dozen bank fishermen in the entire stretch we fished. I think the fishermen outnumbered the moose maybe 3 to 1, but not more. The water had risen a lot in the prior 24 hours and the fish were not responding well…I've fished a long time and while not an expert I think I know when I'm running a dry or nymphing rig on a good drag-free drift through prime water, and the fish were just not biting very well. In fact, we'd sometimes finally get a strike on the second or third time through a run, so I was very thankful for how hard the guide worked to give us the best shots at fish on what was my first (and who know, maybe only) trip to that beautiful river. If we'd been in the normal train of fly fishing drift boats on the Yak I would have cringed at the idea of re-fishing runs. On the Big Hole River on that day the thought never crossed my mind.
     

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