Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by freestoneangler, Nov 8, 2011.

  1. Tried and proven:

    1.) Read (or re-read) "Standing in a River Waving a Stick"
    2.) Say "Red Green Man's Prayer" (5x if you are really feeling guilty)
    3.) Spend a day on the water with Lugan and talk tons of trash about me ;)
  2. My main point above was making the case on how well rounded the University is. Sure Academic All-American status in sports isn't as lofty as a Rhodes Scholar but it's certainly a measure of Penn State emphasis on Academics with in their major college sports program, particularly football. Penn State has always been one of the top couple of major football programs with their graduation rate which incidentially exceeds that of the entire student body. Penn State isn't and hasn't been the typical college football factory. And regards to Paterno's financial contributions to the University, I don't think you'd find a coach who has contributed more to their University than Paterno. Paterno was well compensated but considering his stature and longevity, you'd think he be by far the highest compensated coach. In 2010, he was 51st! Joe wasn't there for the money as most major college coaches seemingly are. While I don't know the actual figures I'd be eager to bet percentage wise, that Paterno gave a significantly higher percentage of his income to Penn State than the Gates Family gave to UW. As a matter of fact, I don't think it would be even close.
  3. Could be worse, he's got some nice rods to try.
  4. And don't forget that George Harvey was the one who brought Joe Humpreys to Penn State!
  5. If I knew what he did, and reported it
    to the powers that be, and nothing was
    done, and I did nothing....

    I would be as guilty as he who did the deed.

  6. Everyone wants a hero but there are none. Never will be. Mankind as a whole is a systematically f*cked up bunch.
  7. Well it's always been my dream to have spent a day flyfishing with Winston Churchill & George Patton at the same time. But since they both died before I was born , maybe I should try a day fishing with Lugan & Freestone to bring out the same type of epic discussions. I've always said most the worlds problems could be solved in a driftboat after a few beers .
  8. The University failed JoePa and then JoePa failed the University.

  9. I don't believe that, heroes simply go unnoticed to the mass except to the few fortunate ones.
  10. Well said Porter, I was thinking along the same line. Our society holds athletes, coaches and movie stars up as heros, while the real heros go unnoticed.
    I always liked Joe Paterno ( though I didn't know him), he seemed like a nice guy who did a lot of good things for alot of people. He fucked up and I'm sure he regreted it, now he's dead. Wether he was a hero or not is not for me to say.
  11. Lugan,

    I sure wish you would read my prior posts on this threat regarding the facts that: 1) Paterno reported to the University's VP in charge of campus police what he was told about Sandusky being in the shower with a boy. 2) This VP in charge of campus police was (and the current one is) in effect the Police Commissioner. 3) Since this person is the Police Commissioner, there is no hight law enforcement officer Paterno could have gone to. 4) Paterno also reported the same to the Athlectic Director, who was the only person other than the University President that could revoke Sandusky's priviledges to use the football comples facilities. 5) Sandusky had retired before these things happened and he was granted Professor Emeritus status by the University, not Paterno. 6) Paterno did not have the authority or power to ban Sandusky from the facilities. 7) In 1998 (which was 3 years prior to the allegations Paterno became aware of and that he took to the VP in charge of campus police and the Athletic Directorallegations against Sandusky) charges were referred to the Centre County Prosecutor's Office. 8) The Centre County Prosecutor took no action against Sandusky (i.e. he didn't file charges of any sort and just let things die and go away). 9) Paterno was cleared of any wrongdoing by the Grand Jury.

    So I ask you, if you go to the Police Commissioner and the City Administrator (which the Athletic Director in effect is at Penn State) and they do nothing, what other law enforcement officer are you going to go to? I mean, you've already gone to the highest law enforcement man in the city, so you don't have another higher level one to go to. And you have already gone to the City Administrator, who is the person responsible for dealing with these issues, so you have no one higher to go to there either. Are you going to go to the Governor? He would probably tell you to go back to the people you have already reported to since it is a University (i.e. city) problem. Are you going to go to the FBI? Since there is no interstate crime committed, they have zero jusrisdiction and can do nothing. Are you going to go to the State Patrol? Again, they have no jurisdiction. Perhaps you will go to your Congressman or one of your Senators? Unfortunately, there is no national law broken, so they can do nothing either.

    Yet despite these facts, you insist on vilifying Paterno. Or don't facts mean anything to you?
    jaybo41 likes this.
  12. FT,

    Josh's lengthy response to a previous post of yours (post #70) roughly corresponds to what I would write here. I've not seen anything corroborating your version of events.

    Even Paterno himself in his last interview said, "I wish I had done more", which was both an implicit admission and a small step toward redemption. If he was the great man some claim, maybe if he'd lived longer he might have made things right somehow. But we'll never know.

    I'm done with this thread.
  13. Lugan,

    Yes, Paterno did say he wished he had done more. But the truth of the matter is he had already taken it to the Police Commissioner (the VP in charge of campus police) and the Athletic Director, which was exactly what he was supposed to do according to University policy and by legal requirements; therefore, there really isn't anything further he could have done short of going to the University President, who would have sent him back to the Athletic Director and VP in charge of campus police.

    I can't help but notice that you completely avoided answering my questions.
  14. Good deeds? He won football games for his team. How is that a good deed or of any real significance to society in general?

    He 'allegedly' had knowledge that a minor had been sexually assaulted by one of his staff and did, what seems, a bare minimum to stop it. To me, that speaks volumes on what type of person he really was. When an adult staffer comes to you and says, xyz, then yea, it doesn't take a genius to call the cops and file a report. But what also happens, being head coach is that he should have pursued it to it's end. It's YOUR house, what excuse does he have for not knowing what goes on?

    It's almost as if he had to debate what was more important, the safety of a 10 yr old minor or the monumental achievement of winning another college football game. Whats hard to envision is how you could not pursue and ensure that the police were adequately involved in determining what happened.

    He was head coach, it's his job to ensure things like this dont' go unnoticed or unresolved.

    I can't say as I care really, just that I find it peculiar that there are those who view his sporting achievements as some kind of boon to society in general. As if getting all those touchdowns, passes, runs, kicks, is somehow really important in the grand scheme of things and that they somehow overshadow the importance of being a decent human being.
  15. I have read all of the prior comments on this thread with interest, but have until now refrained from injecting any of my own because I am undoubtedly closer to this than most of you are, and as such may be prejudiced in my beliefs.

    You see, I am a native Pennsylvanian. I have lived in State College, PA and graduated from its university. I went to my first football games there during the 1960's, and continued through the Nittany Lions last home games there this past fall. I love the environs in that part of central Pennsylvania and have fished most of the myriad of trout streams that populate the region.

    I am proud to be a Penn Stater, and more so today than ever I love Joe Paterno. Is he perfect? No. Has he made mistakes? Yes. Haven't every one of us at some time or another in our lifetimes?

    However, Joe was never primarily about just winning football games. Don't take my word for it though. Ask any one of the 600 or so returning football lettermen who attended his memorial services last week in State College.

    To him, football was just the means to an end, and the end objective was to get a good education, to turn boys into men who could go out into the world and make a positive impact on society. I believed him when he said that this Sandusky affair was one of the great sorrows of his life, and with the benefit of hindsight he said he wished he had done more.

    I can probably give you a hundred reasons why I will always respect the man, and I'm not trying to convince any of you who have an opposite view to change your opinions. However, to me, one of his last acts speaks volumes about the kind of a man he was. Amid the turmoil surrounding the Sandusky affair and his diagnosis of lung cancer, he wrote a $100,000 check making a donation to the university that had just fired him.

    I believe that this true act of selflessness and kindness in his darkest hours showed just what kind of a man he was.

    jaybo41 likes this.

    "USA Today - Penn State e-mails may show Paterno in on Sandusky coverup"

    As I read back through the JOEPA thread here on WFF it's hard not to wince at some of the posts by staunch defenders of Paterno and Penn State. In light of this latest information, perhaps folks will use this as an opportunity for self introspection, and to reset their radar regarding the indications, warnings and enablers of child sexual abuse. Maybe then we will be able to stop more of these awful crimes on children.
  17. The man is in his grave!
  18. He may be in his grave, but for the rest of us there is a lesson here: Be careful who you idolize.

    Next topic: Lance Armstrong.
  19. Oh for hell sake, think about what you're saying. How in the hell would anyone have known that one of Joe's coaches was a pedophile? Sandusky is a creeper, plain and simple, no argument. He is guilty of the crime, not Paterno. Had Joe never made a formal statement to the authorities and his management, I would think much less of him -- but he did.

    To suggest that anyone you look up to is a clean as the driven snow and might never turn out to be a Sandusky, is ridiculous.
  20. Shhh... Let this one go. If the government gets wind, that JOEPA could have done more, they may just dig up his body, put him on trial, then bury him again... at the tax payers expense.

    Look, it seems like they are doing just fine finding ways to waste our money, they don't need our help. :D

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