Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by freestoneangler, Nov 8, 2011.

  1. The point isn't that it was occurring on penn state. The point is people knew about this and did nothing to put it to a stop. And because of their failure to act other boys were victimized.

    This is the kind of crime that there is rarely an eye wittiness. There were two adults that witnessed this on two separate ocassions. The people that knew about this activity also knew that bastard was involved with a charity for troubled youth. They saw him taking these kids to football games. They did nothing to stop it.

    Yea I think joe pa did the bare minimum the law requires. The bare minimum didn't keep those kids that followed from being molested. "What should he have done?". Whatever it took to stop it.
  2. This is so disturbing to me.

    As one of, if not THE most powerful coaches in all of college sports Joe Paterno could have resigned in protest over the cover up. Instead he chose to protect the program. He made a decision that all of the people who had ever been involved or were currently involved with Penn State were more important than one little boy. He was wrong and as a cosequence Penn State will never, ever move past this shame.

    In my mind the cover up here is many, many times worse than the crime, Sandusky is at a minimum a very sick man, Paterno et al. acted in pure self interest.

    FT, it seems as though you are defending the indefensible.
  3. Anybody who had ANY knowledge of this needs to be gone, from the GA to the prosecutor. Its that simple. If any of them had done the right thing some kids would have been saved a lifetime of issues. There is legal and there is moral obligations.

    But Sandusky is by far the worst part of this.
  4. FT, here's the deal. In the days and months that followed, he did not check on the health and safety of the boy. Just think about that for a while.
  5. iagree with everything you said. Except in my eyes the guys who did nothing are just as guilty as sandusky.
  6. Anyone who knew, and failed to dial 9-1-1 immediately, needs to hang.
  7. FT,

    If I'm Paterno, and I report this incident to the people I'm supposed to, and nothing gets done about it, then I start to smell a "coverup". At that point I go farther up the ladder and make the report to the State Police or the FBI. I don't just sit back and say, "Well, I did what I was supposed to do, too bad for all the boys that got raped".
    IMHO, this was all swept under the rug to protect the golden reputation of Penn State football and I believe that Paterno was hoping this would all go away so he could finish his stellar career. I honestly wonder how he sleeps at night knowing he could have done more to stop this than he did, but then again, I would put the safety of children from a rapist above my football coaching career.
  8. my only question to all who crucified Joe is how many times, regardless of offense, have you seen someone break the law and not go above and beyond? we are all held to the same moral standards as human beings.
  9. Folks,

    Paterno did exactly what he was supposed to do and reported it to the chief of police of University Park, PA and to the one person who had given Sandusky permission to use the facilities, the Athlectic Director. The Pennsylvania State Police don't have jurisdiction in any city or town (except for conspiracy crimes) unless that city or town requests them to help. University Park, PA's police chief (the VP Paterno reported it to) did not ask the State Police for help; therefore, they wouldn't have been able to do anything. As far as the FBI. there was no federal law broken or involved, so the FBI could not have gotten involved either.

    Remember Paterno did not have the authority to either give Sandusky permission or to remove permission from him to use the facility, it was the Athletic Director who had that authority and Paterno reported it to him. The Athletic Director and VP (chief of police) failed to act, not Paterno. So once again I ask, what else was Paterno, or anyone else in the same position, supposed to do? He already reported it to the top law enforcement official who had jusrisdiction.

    As far as dialing 9-1-1, If you report a crime (that you didn't witness yourself, but that you had been told about) to the top law enforcement official, what is calling 9-1-1 going to do that is any different? I mean, if you report a crime that you did not witness but had been told about to the chief of police of Seattle, is it reasonable to expect you to also call 9-1-1? And once you do report it to the chief of police, what else are you supposed to do? And you didn't just report it to the chief of police, you also reported it to the Seattle City Administrator. And then you are told you didn't do enough! And are accused of only doing the bare minimum legally required. So reporting a crime that you did not personally witness and that you were not given much detail about to the chief of police is not enough, pray tell what is?

    It is also not reasonable to expect Paterno, or anyone else, including any of us, to check on the health and safety of the boy. It also very possible that it would be illegal to do so because it could possibly taint a criminal case for doing do and be construed to have been winess tampering. Heck, Paterno didn't even know the boy's name and didn't witness it himself. So one more time I ask, What else is a reasonable person, including each of us, supposed to do when it was reported to the chief of police and the man in charge of granting permission to folks no longer employed at the university to use university facilities?

    And yes, I would be just as passionate about this if I was not a Penn State alum. I was just as passsionate about Bobby Knight being fired because he had the audacity to yell at some of his players. That was wrong as well. Who among us has never been yelled at or told to shape up by someone in authority? Bobby Knight got fired for doing so, and it was wrong. He didn't beat the players, didn't use his authority to hurt them, didn't keep them from playing, and he was fired for yelling at some of them.

    It is completely hypocritical to blame the person who reported to the proper authorities. It is those two folks, who still have their jobs at Penn State in exactly the same capacities they had when Paterno reported it to them, who failed to do their duty and jobs. Why aren't the news media and others, including the governor of Pennsylvania, screaming for their heads.
  10. First off, this is incorrect.

    Paterno told Tim Curley (athletic director) and Gary Schultz (senior vice president for finance and business). Schultz is not the "chief of police of University Park, PA" but his position at the college gives him technical oversight for the police force. You know, in the same way that a city council has oversight. But he is in no way a sworn law enforcement officer. He's not even a security guard. Tyrone Parham, for whatever it is worth, is the current "chief of police" for the Penn state police force. Obviously, he may not have been the chief in 2002. But my point is that they don't have some VP's name listed as the chief.

    JoePa ran Penn State. If he had wanted to make a big deal about ANY of this, he easily could have. He got people hired and fired all the time. Just as all men of power do. Sandusky was a big deal, but he was just an assistant coach. He was no JoePa.

    Again, he didn't tell the Chief Of Police. If anything, he told the equivalent of the City Council President or something like that.

    This wasn't some kid selling a little weed in the locker room or a big name booster giving an athlete a car, these were kids getting raped. Again, Paterno could have made as big of a deal as he wanted to, in front of or behind the scenes. He ran State College.

    No, Tim Curley and Gary Schultz do not "still have their jobs". One ran back into hiding in retirement and the other is on a "leave of absence" or whatever they are calling it. In either case, they both are facing federal charges and no matter how the criminal cases turn out, they will not have their jobs when it all shakes out and will probably be facing millions of dollars in civil suits (as will Paterno and McQuery).

    There's a world of difference between Bobby Knight and this situation. If you don't see that, I'm not even sure what to say. Paterno may have done the legal minimum. But he failed morally. And given the crime, that failure is unacceptable.
  11. I suppose like most topics of heated discussion, the side you down on depends on your own life experiences, values and beliefs.

    As a parent, I feel that many associated with these terrible events should have done more to protect the children.
  12. I break the law all the time in order to go above and beyond.

    Morals have nothing to do with the law. If we let the government dictate what is right and wrong, we've already lost what is left of good human conduct.
  13. And unicorns eat rainbows and shit butterflies in your world
  14. You know after thinking about see boy being raped by man, you kick ass. after lawyers and police involved you get charged with assault...why?...because rapist has that type of lawyer that twist things and child wont speak the who is penalized? ......its real and why people don't get to involved in many matters.....understand all the views...but in the end one must does this affect me? That is the question.....for those of you wiling to stick a boot in the ass of the rapist are you willing to serve 5 years in prison? ?? Or are you more likely to report and let others (authorities) carry out the law? I know what I would do.....but? As black and white as this appears becomes grey or gray when ties and suits become involved. just thinking out loud!
  15. Sad, really really sad. You report to a higher authority a break in. When a child is being molested, I would like think we would do more than that regardless of what the law says I can get away with.
  16. Okay, so ignore the heat of the moment. How do you not call the cops as soon as you can find a phone? How do you watch that child rapist walk around campus and run his children's charity for the next 9 years?
  17. I cant answer that one, no excuse not to call police.
  18. So, how many of you have actually had the courage to read the entire grand jury report? Most of you are parents and the report is very helpful in seeing the setup and grooming pedophiles use to secure their victims and then the manipulation to keep their victims involved and the crimes secret. This includes very skilled and subtle maneuvering within institutions like Penn State U. and his youth organization Second Mile, even his wife and probably his own kids. There are a lot of people from janitors to the highest level of administration at Penn State that were not forthcoming in protecting children for fear of institutional, professional, and/or personal retribution or publicity. If you are a parent please read the report, it will enlighten you.

    You know, wherever you have kids (schools, Boy Scouts troops, church groups, etc.) there is a setting that is attractive to a pedophile. I hope your kids can come tell you about ANYTHING that is troubling them. I've done intakes on two pedophiles and I don't want to ever do another. Their brains are truly "broken", their attraction to children is as natural as breathing is to us and it never stops.
  19. iagree

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