Just one big, happy family...

Discussion in 'Saltwater' started by livetofish, Sep 18, 2006.

  1. Coach Duff Banned or Parked

    Posts: 1,272
    Kailua Hawaii
    Ratings: +6 / 0
    Let's see Chong, "self-proclaim", "elite", "high up", "mighty", "egotistic", "deserve a national parade", "don't need anyones' lecture", and the "in no way am I trying to offend anyone". Sure.
    I've e-mailed you before. Your message is okay but your tone reeks of resentment for the sport you are involved in. Tell you what, you keep telling everyone excatly where and how you fish and if you are not already, you will find yourself in the flyshop and internet vortex. It's kind of a slow death void of otter and orca sightings, unusually aggessive fish, quiet sunsets, mountain lions, bear, deer you can pet, a place to take a nap, and all of the other things that come with flyfishing. You see, you attract enough people to an area, those things of beauty dissappear. Bait tins, beer cans, meth pipes, human feces, miles of broken lures and egg rigs under the water. You'll catch fish though and so will the guys standing right next to you. The state sees to that. You paid for those fish. I'll keep hiking and scaling and crawling. And I'll only tell my fishing buddy or maybe my wife where I went. That's my right too. I've done this for a long time. I would love to see how you feel about this in 25 years. Personal space becomes more important to me. Quiet. Peace. Thoughts. Theory. Observation gets better. I don't run into holes anymore. I might even let someone pass me, for the joy of a few wild blackberries. I share the spots I know everbody knows. So do the magazines. So does the flyshops. So does the Fishing and Hunting News. Hell John Shewey did an article on the South Fork of the Sky. The mysteries of this sport are what keep me coming back. You go ahead and publish that book. We may cross in a parking lot someday, but I'll be the guy walking miles past where the last page on the book ends. Taking naps all by myself. Eating blackberries. Hearing nothing but the sound of the river. Catching big fish, lots of them. Some of us catch fish because we flyfish and some of us flyfish to catch fish. I'm in the first group. Where are you? :beer1:
  2. I 1ur|<0r J00 New Member

    Posts: 42
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    I'm in the "A blackberry pie sure sounds good" group :) hehheh. Hey coach 1965 called, they want their bait tins back.
  3. chongfk Member

    Posts: 61
    Seattle, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    When I first come to Washington State, I ask some of my friends about fishing in Washington State. They teach me a lot and then they ask me what I fish with. I told them I like to do fly fishing. Immediately, they look at me differently but they did not say why. Later on, I spoke with other fisherman and I found that there is general resentment to fly fisherman. I do not understand the hostility at that point; I thought it was just my luck that I keep meeting people who dislike fly fishing. Then I come across some fly fisherman on my fishing trip and I started to browse on WFF. Until now, I understand why. "elite", "high up", "mighty", "egotistic", is what others (not necessary fisherman) describe fly fishermen. I did not come up with these description because I my self is a fly fisherman and I wouldn't want to be associated with these words. Unfortunately, this is how others see fly fisherman. These are the images that fly fishermen has to the general public. Of course most of us will not care and keep doing what we do. However, this is not healthy. There are other words that are associated with fly fishing such as “hard”, “mysterious”, and “complicated”. Maybe this is ok; it makes the sport of fly fishing unique. However, these images are driving people away; we are not attracting the interest of the general public. Of course, this is exactly what some fly fisherman want to see: the less the merrier.

    I hike often. I often go on to berries picking trip. I love the wilderness and enjoy picking the blackberries as well. I just don’t mind people around me. I try to take my friends to some of my berries picking trip, but they are just not interested. They would rather buy the berries from the store. Same thing in fly fishing, not everybody will take the fishing trip that you told them, they would rather fish the major rivers and lakes that everybody knows about. For those who are willing to go through the trouble to fish the hard reaching location, why discourage them? Everybody can get the information on the net or magazine or fly store, but what’s matter is how they will use this information. If someone use this information, actually go out and fish, I say this information has served its purpose well.

    I love fishing, doesn’t matter catching or not. Sometimes I went to my favorite fishing location just to enjoy the view and chatting with other fisherman. I hope more people will share my way of fishing.

    I hope more people will post the their genuine fishing experience including location, water condition, fly used and techniques here to encourage the growth of fly fishing and for the purpose of information exchange. If you see someone who fish illegally or loitering, please have the courage to correct them “nicely” or inform the related authority about improper behavior. Knowledge and education is the only way to save Washington’s resource, especially the young one. If their father does not teach them the right way to fish, you will teach them the right way to fish.

    I believe I will feel the same in 25 years, sharing and helping is always true to the philosophy of fly fishing. Hopefully, with my growing fishing experience, I can reveal more fishing location through out the year. I probably don’t have the expertise to publish book such as “The Secret Fishing Spots in Washington State”, but it will be nice if I do.

    Again I want to say that it is a personal preference to reveal or not a fishing spot. It's your preference to not reveal a location in your report and it's my preference to do otherwise.
  4. chongfk Member

    Posts: 61
    Seattle, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +0 / 0

    About the "deserve a national parade" comment, I actually mean it, and in a good way. I have always envy those who have the time, are willing and able to explore around. I have always admired those who venture around and discovering new things. I idolize those who have explored the up and down, in and out of Washington state for most of their life, and I truly think that they deserve a national parade.

    However, I do not admire their attitude towards anglers who learn about their fishing location from the net or magazine.
  5. Coach Duff Banned or Parked

    Posts: 1,272
    Kailua Hawaii
    Ratings: +6 / 0
    Ahh, the delivery is everything. Very well put Chong. You know most people have pre-conceived notions of something foreign to them. But it's amazing how fast those beliefs change when they hook that first fish on a fly rod. One minute the're using terms like elitist, snobby and stuffy and one little fish later it's off to the fly shop. "What's tippet?" Chong you do have to understand the fun of having your own secret little spot. You are a good conservationist, outdoorsman, and love to flyfish. Just remember that just because you respect the laws and the environment, everyone else doesn't. They read magazines, and the internet also. Poachers, druggies, arsonists, chemical dumpers, ect ect. So I think what is needed is kind of a balance between "come and get it" and the other extreme. I give a little info to get a little info and some areas which are very fragile ecosystem wise, I keep in my circle of people I trust. You can do it however you want. I just hope you understand a little deeper why guys get pissed when their spot is broadcast. They have that right also. They have done this long enough to see a special place destroyed. Just a thought. Tight lines and I hope your next outing is great fishing. Coachptyd
  6. Denny Active Member

    Posts: 4,045
    Seattle, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +45 / 0
  7. chongfk Member

    Posts: 61
    Seattle, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +0 / 0

    I understand where you are coming from. However, I respectfully disagree with you. My first post on this thread is mainly in response to the following message:

    There are genuine newbies who want to learn how to fly fish here. I understand the arguments on location disclosing, but preventing others from sharing information on techniques, tackle, tides, and beach characteristics? A true newbie to salt water fly fishing probably don't even know where to look for a local tide table and do not understand the important of tide-fish relationship. What's wrong with sharing such information? Thank goodness most of the posters here do share this information.
  8. livetofish Fish to Live

    Posts: 55
    Northwest WA
    Ratings: +0 / 0

    First, please reread your quote of the original post. I was applauding and encouraging the posting of "techniques, tackle, tides, general areas, beach characteristics, etc.". I was only asking folks to reconsider posting specific locations in a public forum. I come here to learn just like everyone else, and believe me I need it! :thumb:

    Second, nowhere did I state or suggest that it is only newbies who are looking for shortcuts to finding quality water. This is clearly an attribute shared by many new flyfishers and veterans alike. I stated this clearly in my second post. So please don't try to twist this debate into a newbie vs old-timer thing, which it isn't.
  9. raincityrod Guest

    Posts: 0
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Keep on pontificating boy's. Keeps you off the streets and creeks. I would rather see you here than there.
  10. Shawn MD a.k.a. Riverfisher99

    Posts: 58
    Renton, WA
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Matt Burke:

    As of late I’ve been thinking that us class B and C players really ought to help out the newbies (I never admit to not being able to learn more from others so I really try to be a class A). It really wouldn’t be that big of a deal for me to meet people out on the river during the week. My waders are back in “never get a chance to dry out mode.” As we’re sort of a club, I’d like to see a “Sponsor the Newb Campaign.” Because I know, you get people out from behind their computerscreen; they are not the same person.

    Could I sign up for the class B and C class? I would love to meet more people out on the rivers. Hell, I would just like to sit and watch someone who CAN cast well do it so I can learn something!ptyd

  11. chongfk Member

    Posts: 61
    Seattle, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +0 / 0

    My previous post is about why I post my first post. You did say that things that you say on your first post, hence my response is to that. It has nothing to do with your following post. As far as location revealing, I do not agree with your opinion.
  12. Matt Burke Active Member

    Posts: 3,642
    Ratings: +56 / 0
    Man, I thought this thread was going well until we hit page 2. I really do think I will make a move toward taking people out on the river from the site. I'm going to run this up the flagpole and see who salutes, maybe get a few other senior members to help out.
  13. Jim Wallace Smells like low tide

    Posts: 5,650
    Somewhere on the Coast
    Ratings: +540 / 0
    Gotta agree with livetofish, Coachduff, Richard, and Mike Etgen that discretion is the better way to go when thinking about revealing fishing locations.
    Chongfk, your idealism is refreshing, but you are incredibly naive if you believe that sharing the location of a "secret" good fishing spot on the internet won't subject that spot to more visitations by fishers who hadn't known of that spot before its location was posted. Crowds are never a good thing, unless you are making money off them. Myself, I don't like crowds at my fishing spots. Ideally, I like to be fishing alone or with one or maybe even two buddies. If I (or we) don't see anyone else all day, so much the better. I DON'T WANT TO SHARE WITH EVERYBODY! I guess that makes me selfish and greedy, but I don't care if anyone calls me those words, because I want to keep my nice places that I like to go to secret and free from the filthy sweating hordes. Dig?

    Yesterday I worked hard to get to a spot I never talk about, and I had it all to myself. The fishing, for coastal cutthroat, was spotty, a fish here, a fish there, on #6 yellow/red reverse spider, later switching to a #6 black reverse spider. I finally ran into a pod of searuns occupying a nice pool and had some good fast action...six nice litle acrobats to hand, 11" to 13" chromers. Cutthroat Heaven...Shangri La...The Zone....I might share this spot with one or two individuals whom I can trust to keep it quiet, but I don't want to share it with the world. I spent alot of time and effort finding this place and learning about its secrets.
    Places like these are referred to as "zipperlips," "secret spots," or "getaways," because they are places you go to to get away from other people and crowds. And there are usually at least a few other people who also enjoy these places and appreciate their uncrowded, pristine nature and who would also like to keep them that way, and who would be more than a little dismayed to see them advertised willy nilly on the internet....one has an obligation to NOT spill the beans and ruin a place for these other lucky ones who also already know about it.
    Chongfk you will never know these places.
  14. chongfk Member

    Posts: 61
    Seattle, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +0 / 0

    Someday I might find my own secret location here in the state, if I have the time to explore. When I do, I just don't mind sharing it. If it is a location that you have to work hard to get to, I truly don't think the location will be crowded. I might see you or a couple others on this board who have a sense of adventure to be there, which is ok. I am ok too even if new faces show up, they deserve a pat in the back if they work hard and spend the some time to get there. You keep your secret spot to you and your trusted friends, that's your preference. I want to let you know that when I find a heavenly fishing location, you and your friend are invited. I am more then happy to see you in the water with me.

    There are no secret fishing spot on public land. All are open to the general public who buy a WA fishing license and fish according to the regulation. I don't think those who fish illegally will take the effort to fish a hard-to-reach location since they will have a much easier time fishing the major rivers of WA.

    Jim Wallace you will know these places . . . of course, I have to find them first :)
  15. Mike Etgen Not Quite A Luddite, But Can See One From Here

    Posts: 1,433
    Port Orchard, Washington, USA.
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Me being a generally solitary type, I felt a little squeamish about this at first, but then I saw an even more profound possibility:

    How about we start a new service here, sort of an "eHarmony" for Washington flyfishermen? You know, match up the needy, lonely types like me with compatibles. The basic questionnaire could range from the practical to the esoteric:

    Willing to travel?
    Will pay for gas? (yes or no)
    Have a clean, safe vehicle to share? (yes/no) If no, describe and explain.
    Have all the basic gear (flyfishing, that is)?
    Can tie own knots?
    Bring own flies?
    Packing or not (as in firearms)? If yes, please describe weapon.
    Tolerant of (rain, heat, wet clothing, cold, screaming "Fish on!", etc.)
    Tolerant of (smoking, farting, belching, body odor, swearing, drinking, etc)?
    Willing to talk about (anything, nothing, flyfishing only, ethics, sports, religion, politics, women, men, children, dogs, trucks, gear, etc.)?
    Able to disagree about closely-held values by (sulking, agreeing to disagree, insults, threats, bitch-slapping, hand-to-hand combat, accidental drowning, other)?
    My idea of funny is (Carlos Mencia, Stephen Colbert, Bart Simpson, Hank Hill, Donald Rumsfeld, other?)

    I can see the ads now. Me and my new fishing buddy, telling the world how we met our perfect flyfshing match on "WWF Flyharmony."

    Sorry, Matt, for stealing your basic idea. I'm sure Chris will share the royalties with us evenly.

    PS...all joking aside, I do think Matt's is the basis of a good idea. We've all seen posts from new members looking for someone to fish with, and I suspect some of the veterans have been pretty good about stepping up.
  16. chongfk Member

    Posts: 61
    Seattle, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Alright guys, I know I am rubbing a lot of you here the wrong way. But I stand where I stand, that will never change. I want to say that I understand your arguments even though it is not one that I can agree with. Call me "incredibly naive", I don't mind. I will say this though; I will never reveal a location that is shown to me unless I have the permission to do so. This is basic respect. So for those who have shown me some of their fishing location, I thank you and please do not worry, I will never reveal it to any body unless I have your permission. However, if I find a fishing location on my own, I am sorry but I will share it with everyone. That’s just how I fly fish. I believe in sharing and bringing in new blood to the sport.

    I know everybody here love world peace :), May be sometime some writing might seem a bit rude and mean (including my self), but it's all for good cause. I apologize if I have aggravated you here. Please keep sharing techniques and other info on this board; it was this info that starts my WA fishing experience. You have no clue how much your genuine info and guidelines here means to some one who are new to WA fly fishing or fly fishing.

    The last thing I want to say is "Let's go fish!!" Tight line everybody!!
  17. BigDog2002 Gone Fishing

    Posts: 41
    Sammamish, WA
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    I love this thread...

    We're all here because we love to fish. Help a brother out, it's not like there are really any "secrets". Might as well spill the details. Hell we can all go on google earth and see you standing there, in your oh so ivory tower secret spot.

    Outside private access, all fishing locations should be shared in any kind of usefull manner.

    I swear sometimes I read this board and wonder if the administrators aren't getting mail to remove certain posts because of some 'secret' divulged!

    That being said you can be of camp #1, the aren't I special, I've paid my dues, I deserve it, really I know something, or camp #2, hey I was out at Brown's Point at dusk high tide rippin' cohos right and left.

    Choose as you will, but please don't go on pontificating about either your specialness, or bashing those who care to share.

    Peace Out.

  18. ibn Moderator

    Posts: 1,885
    Federal Way
    Ratings: +10 / 0
    I love this thread...

    Funny you mentioned this, not only have I got the email/PMs, but I've also got phone calls from members asking me to take down threads because of this.
  19. Coach Duff Banned or Parked

    Posts: 1,272
    Kailua Hawaii
    Ratings: +6 / 0
    "Big Dog", as you ended your thread on 8-18-2006 at 2.45 PM. And I quote,
    "There are no secrets in fishing, just wisdom that some refuse to pass along for whatever reason."
    You can give your spots or not give your spots, just treat others like you want to be treated.
    PS We need to talk about the upper Columbia.:beer1:
  20. hendersonbaylocal Member

    Posts: 966
    Seattle WA
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    I say we just practice good judgement. Is that too much to ask?

    Golden Gardens is not a secret spot. Neither is the MF of the Snoqualmie. A small run of steelhead on an unnamed stream might be. There is a fine, if not fuzzy line here. People are trying to draw it with a ruler and a fine tip pen and that is the kind of crappy logic that causes feuds, genocide and ethnic cleansing in some parts of the world.

    Just think before you say something.